Pops refutes the biblical concept of the Trinity

[Bright Raven]

Please feel free to DEFINE what you think that context is. The verse is crystal clear about God NOT wanting ANYONE to perish, which CLEARLY means that He did NOT create anyone with the explicit intend of their eternal damnation.

God wants everyone to be saved, but will NOT force anyone to be saved.

1 Timothy 2:3-5 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)​

3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;​

God has always limited His own sovereignty to allow mankind to make decisions that might be right or wrong.

Just a thought,

John 17:12 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
12 While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the [a]son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.

 

[Right Divider]

Just a thought,

John 17:12 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
12 While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the [a]son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.

I'm not really sure what your "thought" is. Can you clarify?

 

[Bright Raven]

I'm not really sure what your "thought" is. Can you clarify?

Where you stated no one was created for damnation.

 

[Right Divider]

Where you stated no one was created for damnation.

So you think that some people were created with the EXPLICIT INTENT of damning them?

Your scripture did not prove that in the slightest.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Where you stated no one was created for damnation.

Could God have made His plan come to pass even if Judas had repented and not sold out Jesus?

If you say no, then I will challenge you on whether you believe several other passages throughout scripture, which say that man cannot thwart God's plans.

 

[MennoSota]

Please feel free to DEFINE what you think that context is. The verse is crystal clear about God NOT wanting ANYONE to perish, which CLEARLY means that He did NOT create anyone with the explicit intend of their eternal damnation.

God wants everyone to be saved, but will NOT force anyone to be saved.

1 Timothy 2:3-5 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)​

3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;​

God has always limited His own sovereignty to allow mankind to make decisions that might be right or wrong.

False Divider, here's 2 Peter 3 so you and your cronies can read it in context.
2 Peter 3:2-18
[2]I want you to remember what the holy prophets said long ago and what our Lord and Savior commanded through your apostles.
[3]Most importantly, I want to remind you that in the last days scoffers will come, mocking the truth and following their own desires.
[4]They will say, “What happened to the promise that Jesus is coming again? From before the times of our ancestors, everything has remained the same since the world was first created.”
[5]They deliberately forget that God made the heavens long ago by the word of his command, and he brought the earth out from the water and surrounded it with water.
[6]Then he used the water to destroy the ancient world with a mighty flood.
[7]And by the same word, the present heavens and earth have been stored up for fire. They are being kept for the day of judgment, when ungodly people will be destroyed.
[8]But you must not forget this one thing, dear friends: A day is like a thousand years to the Lord, and a thousand years is like a day.
[9]The Lord isn’t really being slow about his promise, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent.
[10]But the day of the Lord will come as unexpectedly as a thief. Then the heavens will pass away with a terrible noise, and the very elements themselves will disappear in fire, and the earth and everything on it will be found to deserve judgment.
[11]Since everything around us is going to be destroyed like this, what holy and godly lives you should live,
[12]looking forward to the day of God and hurrying it along. On that day, he will set the heavens on fire, and the elements will melt away in the flames.
[13]But we are looking forward to the new heavens and new earth he has promised, a world filled with God’s righteousness.
[14]And so, dear friends, while you are waiting for these things to happen, make every effort to be found living peaceful lives that are pure and blameless in his sight.
[15]And remember, our Lord’s patience gives people time to be saved. This is what our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you with the wisdom God gave him—
[16]speaking of these things in all of his letters. Some of his comments are hard to understand, and those who are ignorant and unstable have twisted his letters to mean something quite different, just as they do with other parts of Scripture. And this will result in their destruction.
[17]You already know these things, dear friends. So be on guard; then you will not be carried away by the errors of these wicked people and lose your own secure footing.
[18]Rather, you must grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.All glory to him, both now and forever! Amen.
Now for 1 Timothy 2, note that Paul is stating that people from all walks of life will be saved. He is not saying all humanity will be saved.
1 Timothy 2:1-7
[1]I urge you, first of all, to pray for all people. Ask God to help them; intercede on their behalf, and give thanks for them.
[2]Pray this way for kings and all who are in authority so that we can live peaceful and quiet lives marked by godliness and dignity.
[3]This is good and pleases God our Savior,
[4]who wants everyone to be saved and to understand the truth.
[5]For,There is one God and one Mediator who can reconcile God and humanity—the man Christ Jesus.
[6]He gave his life to purchase freedom for everyone.This is the message God gave to the world at just the right time.
[7]And I have been chosen as a preacher and apostle to teach the Gentiles this message about faith and truth. I’m not exaggerating—just telling the truth.

Your man-centered philosophy is not biblical truth, Falsely Divider.

 

[JudgeRightly]

False Divider, here's 2 Peter 3 so you and your cronies can read it in context.
2 Peter 3:2-18
[2]I want you to remember what the holy prophets said long ago and what our Lord and Savior commanded through your apostles.
[3]Most importantly, I want to remind you that in the last days scoffers will come, mocking the truth and following their own desires.
[4]They will say, “What happened to the promise that Jesus is coming again? From before the times of our ancestors, everything has remained the same since the world was first created.”
[5]They deliberately forget that God made the heavens long ago by the word of his command, and he brought the earth out from the water and surrounded it with water.
[6]Then he used the water to destroy the ancient world with a mighty flood.
[7]And by the same word, the present heavens and earth have been stored up for fire. They are being kept for the day of judgment, when ungodly people will be destroyed.
[8]But you must not forget this one thing, dear friends: A day is like a thousand years to the Lord, and a thousand years is like a day.
[9]The Lord isn’t really being slow about his promise, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent.
[10]But the day of the Lord will come as unexpectedly as a thief. Then the heavens will pass away with a terrible noise, and the very elements themselves will disappear in fire, and the earth and everything on it will be found to deserve judgment.
[11]Since everything around us is going to be destroyed like this, what holy and godly lives you should live,
[12]looking forward to the day of God and hurrying it along. On that day, he will set the heavens on fire, and the elements will melt away in the flames.
[13]But we are looking forward to the new heavens and new earth he has promised, a world filled with God’s righteousness.
[14]And so, dear friends, while you are waiting for these things to happen, make every effort to be found living peaceful lives that are pure and blameless in his sight.
[15]And remember, our Lord’s patience gives people time to be saved. This is what our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you with the wisdom God gave him—
[16]speaking of these things in all of his letters. Some of his comments are hard to understand, and those who are ignorant and unstable have twisted his letters to mean something quite different, just as they do with other parts of Scripture. And this will result in their destruction.
[17]You already know these things, dear friends. So be on guard; then you will not be carried away by the errors of these wicked people and lose your own secure footing.
[18]Rather, you must grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.All glory to him, both now and forever! Amen.
Now for 1 Timothy 2, note that Paul is stating that people from all walks of life will be saved. He is not saying all humanity will be saved.
1 Timothy 2:1-7
[1]I urge you, first of all, to pray for all people. Ask God to help them; intercede on their behalf, and give thanks for them.
[2]Pray this way for kings and all who are in authority so that we can live peaceful and quiet lives marked by godliness and dignity.
[3]This is good and pleases God our Savior,
[4]who wants everyone to be saved and to understand the truth.
[5]For,There is one God and one Mediator who can reconcile God and humanity—the man Christ Jesus.
[6]He gave his life to purchase freedom for everyone.This is the message God gave to the world at just the right time.
[7]And I have been chosen as a preacher and apostle to teach the Gentiles this message about faith and truth. I’m not exaggerating—just telling the truth.

Your man-centered philosophy is not biblical truth, Falsely Divider.

Menno, does the Bible ever say it is impossible for a sinner to humble himself before God?

 

[Right Divider]

False Divider, here's 2 Peter 3 so you and your cronies can read it in context.
2 Peter 3:2-18
[2]I want you to remember what the holy prophets said long ago and what our Lord and Savior commanded through your apostles.
[3]Most importantly, I want to remind you that in the last days scoffers will come, mocking the truth and following their own desires.
[4]They will say, “What happened to the promise that Jesus is coming again? From before the times of our ancestors, everything has remained the same since the world was first created.”
[5]They deliberately forget that God made the heavens long ago by the word of his command, and he brought the earth out from the water and surrounded it with water.
[6]Then he used the water to destroy the ancient world with a mighty flood.
[7]And by the same word, the present heavens and earth have been stored up for fire. They are being kept for the day of judgment, when ungodly people will be destroyed.
[8]But you must not forget this one thing, dear friends: A day is like a thousand years to the Lord, and a thousand years is like a day.
[9]The Lord isn’t really being slow about his promise, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent.
[10]But the day of the Lord will come as unexpectedly as a thief. Then the heavens will pass away with a terrible noise, and the very elements themselves will disappear in fire, and the earth and everything on it will be found to deserve judgment.
[11]Since everything around us is going to be destroyed like this, what holy and godly lives you should live,
[12]looking forward to the day of God and hurrying it along. On that day, he will set the heavens on fire, and the elements will melt away in the flames.
[13]But we are looking forward to the new heavens and new earth he has promised, a world filled with God’s righteousness.
[14]And so, dear friends, while you are waiting for these things to happen, make every effort to be found living peaceful lives that are pure and blameless in his sight.
[15]And remember, our Lord’s patience gives people time to be saved. This is what our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you with the wisdom God gave him—
[16]speaking of these things in all of his letters. Some of his comments are hard to understand, and those who are ignorant and unstable have twisted his letters to mean something quite different, just as they do with other parts of Scripture. And this will result in their destruction.
[17]You already know these things, dear friends. So be on guard; then you will not be carried away by the errors of these wicked people and lose your own secure footing.
[18]Rather, you must grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.All glory to him, both now and forever! Amen.
Now for 1 Timothy 2, note that Paul is stating that people from all walks of life will be saved. He is not saying all humanity will be saved.
1 Timothy 2:1-7
[1]I urge you, first of all, to pray for all people. Ask God to help them; intercede on their behalf, and give thanks for them.
[2]Pray this way for kings and all who are in authority so that we can live peaceful and quiet lives marked by godliness and dignity.
[3]This is good and pleases God our Savior,
[4]who wants everyone to be saved and to understand the truth.
[5]For,There is one God and one Mediator who can reconcile God and humanity—the man Christ Jesus.
[6]He gave his life to purchase freedom for everyone.This is the message God gave to the world at just the right time.
[7]And I have been chosen as a preacher and apostle to teach the Gentiles this message about faith and truth. I’m not exaggerating—just telling the truth.

Your man-centered philosophy is not biblical truth, Falsely Divider.

Thanks for not making your point but just rambling on with your own man-centered opinions.

 

[MennoSota]

Thanks for not making your point but just rambling on with your own man-centered opinions.

LOL, your ignorance is great regarding God's word. Both 2 Peter and 1 Timothy speak against you and you are too blind to God's word to even grasp why you are wrong. May God have mercy on your hard heart.

 

[MennoSota]

Menno, does the Bible ever say it is impossible for a sinner to humble himself before God?

Can a dead man humble himself, JW?
Only the adopted and redeemed child of God can be humbled by the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
Show me how a dead man humbles himself, judge wrongly.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Can a dead man humble himself, JW?
Only the adopted and redeemed child of God can be humbled by the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
Show me how a dead man humbles himself, judge wrongly.

If I wanted your opinion, I would have asked for it, Menno.

I asked you if the BIBLE says that man cannot humble himself before God. So could you provide scripture that says man cannot humble himself?

 

[Right Divider]

LOL, your ignorance is great regarding God's word.

Another incorrect opinion on your part.

Both 2 Peter and 1 Timothy speak against you and you are too blind to God's word to even grasp why you are wrong.

Yet another incorrect opinion on your part. At least you are consistent.

May God have mercy on your hard heart.

STRIKE THREE.... you're OUT!

 

[MennoSota]

Please feel free to DEFINE what you think that context is. The verse is crystal clear about God NOT wanting ANYONE to perish, which CLEARLY means that He did NOT create anyone with the explicit intend of their eternal damnation.

God wants everyone to be saved, but will NOT force anyone to be saved.

1 Timothy 2:3-5 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)​

3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;​

God has always limited His own sovereignty to allow mankind to make decisions that might be right or wrong.

First note to whom Peter is writing. Notice that faith was given to you. It is not conjured by your own will.
2 Peter 1:1

[1]This letter is from Simon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ.I am writing to you who share the same precious faith we have. This faith was given to you because of the justice and fairness of Jesus Christ, our God and Savior.

Now for 2 Peter 3.
Peter reminds those who have been given faith about what had been told them by the prophets, Jesus and the Apostles.
1) People will mock the coming back of Jesus (God).
2) They deliberately forget (kind of like you) about the patience God had before the flood.
3) God destroyed the ungodly people (hint, hint, not all were saved).
4) God is not slow in his judgment of this world. Instead he is patient. Who is he patient for?
Pay attention on this one cause you are really dumb about this.
God is patient for...your sake. Who is Peter talking to? Hint, hint: The same people he is writing to in chapter 1 verse 1. Those who have been given faith.
God doesn't want anyone to be destroyed. He desires them to repent.
Who will repent? The people whom God gives faith. The others will be destroyed as the ungodly people.
5) God’s judgment will come unexpectedly. Since it is coming, the elect should live holy and godly lives because the rest will be destroyed.
6) The elect are looking forward to the new heavens and new earth. Meanwhile we live peaceful and holy lives.
2 Peter 3:2-15

[2]I want you to remember what the holy prophets said long ago and what our Lord and Savior commanded through your apostles.
[3]Most importantly, I want to remind you that in the last days scoffers will come, mocking the truth and following their own desires.
[4]They will say, “What happened to the promise that Jesus is coming again? From before the times of our ancestors, everything has remained the same since the world was first created.”
[5]They deliberately forget that God made the heavens long ago by the word of his command, and he brought the earth out from the water and surrounded it with water.
[6]Then he used the water to destroy the ancient world with a mighty flood.
[7]And by the same word, the present heavens and earth have been stored up for fire. They are being kept for the day of judgment, when ungodly people will be destroyed.
[8]But you must not forget this one thing, dear friends: A day is like a thousand years to the Lord, and a thousand years is like a day.
[9]The Lord isn’t really being slow about his promise, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent.
[10]But the day of the Lord will come as unexpectedly as a thief. Then the heavens will pass away with a terrible noise, and the very elements themselves will disappear in fire, and the earth and everything on it will be found to deserve judgment.
[11]Since everything around us is going to be destroyed like this, what holy and godly lives you should live,
[12]looking forward to the day of God and hurrying it along. On that day, he will set the heavens on fire, and the elements will melt away in the flames.
[13]But we are looking forward to the new heavens and new earth he has promised, a world filled with God’s righteousness.
[14]And so, dear friends, while you are waiting for these things to happen, make every effort to be found living peaceful lives that are pure and blameless in his sight.
[15]And remember, our Lord’s patience gives people time to be saved. This is what our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you with the wisdom God gave him—

Wrong divider, you need to read all of God's word rather than abusing parts to suit your own man-made philosophy.

 

[MennoSota]

If I wanted your opinion, I would have asked for it, Menno.

I asked you if the BIBLE says that man cannot humble himself before God. So could you provide scripture that says man cannot humble himself?

You can beat yourself to a pulp, Wrongly, but you will never be made righteous or be humble because you are consumed with yourself. No one seeks after God, not even one.

 

[MennoSota]

Another incorrect opinion on your part.


Yet another incorrect opinion on your part. At least you are consistent.


STRIKE THREE.... you're OUT!

This is funny how the two wrong twins cannot comprehend scripture.
I just laid out the meaning for both of you. Your failure to grasp God's word is on yourselves.

 

[Right Divider]

First note to whom Peter is writing. Notice that faith was given to you. It is not conjured by your own will.
2 Peter 1:1

SECOND Peter is written to the SAME audience as FIRST PETER. Peter was one of the TWELVE apostles to the TWELVE tribes of ISRAEL. He and the OTHER eleven will judge the TWELVE TRIBES OF ISRAEL, just like the LORD Jesus Christ said that they would.

Now for 2 Peter 3.
Peter reminds those who have been given faith about what had been told them by the prophets, Jesus and the Apostles.
1) People will mock the coming back of Jesus (God).
2) They deliberately forget (kind of like you) about the patience God had before the flood.
3) God destroyed the ungodly people (hint, hint, not all were saved).
4) God is not slow in his judgment of this world. Instead he is patient. Who is he patient for?
Pay attention on this one cause you are really dumb about this.
God is patient for...your sake. Who is Peter talking to? Hint, hint: The same people he is writing to in chapter 1 verse 1.

Peter is writing to the TWELVE TRIBES scattered abroad, just like James.

Those who have been given faith.
God doesn't want anyone to be destroyed. He desires them to repent.
Who will repent? The people whom God gives faith. The others will be destroyed as the ungodly people.

The doctrine of the predetermined damnation. You're sick.

5) God’s judgment will come unexpectedly. Since it is coming, the elect should live holy and godly lives because the rest will be destroyed.
6) The elect are looking forward to the new heavens and new earth. Meanwhile we live peaceful and holy lives.
2 Peter 3:2-15

Wrong divider, you need to read all of God's word rather than abusing parts to suit your own man-made philosophy.

Your insults and confusion are normal for someone that tries to force their doctrines on the Bible.

Let the Bible speak for itself.

 

[Right Divider]

This is funny how the two wrong twins cannot comprehend scripture.
I just laid out the meaning for both of you. Your failure to grasp God's word is on yourselves.

Have fun with your false doctrine, just don't pretend that it's from God.

 

[JudgeRightly]

This is funny how the two wrong twins cannot comprehend scripture.

Says the one who has yet to point to a verse or passage that says that a sinner cannot humble himself.

I just laid out the meaning for both of you. Your failure to grasp God's word is on yourselves.

By the way...

Peter was writing to the Diaspora.

 

[JudgeRightly]

You can beat yourself to a pulp, Wrongly, but you will never be made righteous or be humble because you are consumed with yourself. No one seeks after God, not even one.

So that's a "No" on scripture that says that man cannot humble himself. Noted.

That you can't point to any scripture that says that utterly destroys your position.

 

[MennoSota]

SECOND Peter is written to the SAME audience as FIRST PETER. Peter was one of the TWELVE apostles to the TWELVE tribes of ISRAEL. He and the OTHER eleven will judge the TWELVE TRIBES OF ISRAEL, just like the LORD Jesus Christ said that they would.


Peter is writing to the TWELVE TRIBES scattered abroad, just like James.


The doctrine of the predetermined damnation. You're sick.


Your insults and confusion are normal for someone that tries to force their doctrines on the Bible.

Let the Bible speak for itself.

The chosen people of God. The elect. That includes both Jew and Gentile. There is nothing about the tribes of Israel. My goodness, wrong divider, you are just screwed up in your understanding of God's word. May God open your utterly blind eyes.
1 Peter 1:1-2
[1]This letter is from Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ.I am writing to God’s chosen people who are living as foreigners in the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia.
[2]God the Father knew you and chose you long ago, and his Spirit has made you holy. As a result, you have obeyed him and have been cleansed by the blood of Jesus Christ.May God give you more and more grace and peace.