Pops refutes the biblical concept of the Trinity

Faither

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I appreciate the effort and seeming sincerity of your posts of late.

You brought up the Word and that the Word was both with and was indeed GOD.

To me though, such doesn't automatically mean trinity.

The Word Is GOD is the Spirit is the power by which GOD affects HIS will on HIS creation.

What I am saying is that I equate the Word to the Spirit seeing as how both are descriptors of GOD almighty.

I agree that knowing Christ is of the utmost importance.....salvific if you will; but that doesn't mean I believe the trinity as salvific. Now; that doesn't mean I do not believe in a form of trinitarianism; just that I don't find such a believe in scripture personally nor the belief in such as salvific per scripture or the conscience.

It is refreshing to speak to someone without negativity being hurled around needlessly.

peace

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You'll never be able to find the evidence you need from the English language . Only the Greek texts and someone who knows how to read them can show you the evidence your looking for .

I've studied under a Stanford level Dr. Of theology for 32 years . Greek words are very specific . He is fluent in all the ancient texts , and owns the largest collection of biblical manuscripts in private hands behind the Vatican .

The Greek specifically teaches that God the Father , the Son , and the Holy Spirit , are one entity , and 3 separate entities , at the same time all the time . Just like Jesus was 100% God and 100% man at the same time , all the time . This is what one needs to accept about Christianity going out the gate .

These are just the beginning of many of the examples of God's paradoxical framework of understanding that the Greek specifically teaches.

It would take Him 6 months just to teach his students how to correctly understand what a paradox is , and they were basically at a genius level. So I don't expect any agreement in just one post .

This is the problem with being self taught . There are really important pegs that need to be established in the mind to correctly understanding Scripture.

If you try to discern on your own , without one of the gifted ministers , in English , you'll find yourself on either side of the paradoxical pole , throwing darts at the other side .
 

popsthebuilder

New member
You'll never be able to find the evidence you need from the English language . Only the Greek texts and someone who knows how to read them can show you the evidence your looking for .

I've studied under a Stanford level Dr. Of theology for 32 years . Greek words are very specific . He is fluent in all the ancient texts , and owns the largest collection of biblical manuscripts in private hands behind the Vatican .

The Greek specifically teaches that God the Father , the Son , and the Holy Spirit , are one entity , and 3 separate entities , at the same time all the time . Just like Jesus was 100% God and 100% man at the same time , all the time . This is what one needs to accept about Christianity going out the gate .

These are just the beginning of many of the examples of God's paradoxical framework of understanding that the Greek specifically teaches.

It would take Him 6 months just to teach his students how to correctly understand what a paradox is , and they were basically at a genius level. So I don't expect any agreement in just one post .

This is the problem with being self taught . There are really important pegs that need to be established in the mind to correctly understanding Scripture.

If you try to discern on your own , without one of the gifted ministers , in English , you'll find yourself on either side of the paradoxical pole , throwing darts at the other side .
Are you saying GOD only grants discernment of scripture via other men/ scholars?

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Faither

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[OP=popsthebuilder;5267067]Are you saying GOD only grants discernment of scripture via other men/ scholars?

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Eph 4:11-12

" God gave some to be apostles , some prophets , some evangelists , and some pastors and teachers for the perfecting of the saints , for the work of the ministry ,for the edifying of the body of Christ ."

We are either one of these gifted teachers , or we are being perfected by one of these gifted teachers .

Does that mean we don't have discernment ? Of course not .
Does that mean I can teach myself with personal revelations from the Holy Spirit while not being one of these gifted teachers ? Definitely no !

Being self taught is the biggest problem not only in this discussion site , but in the church world today .

I've known one gifted teacher in my 32 years in Christ .
 

MennoSota

New member
[OP=popsthebuilder;5267067]Are you saying GOD only grants discernment of scripture via other men/ scholars?

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Eph 4:11-12

" God gave some to be apostles , some prophets , some evangelists , and some pastors and teachers for the perfecting of the saints , for the work of the ministry ,for the edifying of the body of Christ ."

We are either one of these gifted teachers , or we are being perfected by one of these gifted teachers .

Does that mean we don't have discernment ? Of course not .
Does that mean I can teach myself with personal revelations from the Holy Spirit while not being one of these gifted teachers ? Definitely no !

Being self taught is the biggest problem not only in this discussion site , but in the church world today .

I've known one gifted teacher in my 32 years in Christ .[/QUOTE]Alright...spill it...which cult are you in?
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
GOD is Spirit.

good job.

God is a Spirit....meaning He is unseen by the human eye.

John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.​

You cannot bring your gifts to an altar and worship at His feet.
He is A SPIRIT. He cannot be seen or bowed down to.



Now start back at the beginning. You can't go forward until you understand the basics. This is why it's so important to actually understand a verse before you begin to build anything upon it. It's like building a house without a foundation. Lord only knows what a mess you'd come up with.
 

popsthebuilder

New member
God is a Spirit....meaning He is unseen by the human eye.

John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.​

You cannot bring your gifts to an altar and worship at His feet.
He is A SPIRIT. He cannot be seen or bowed down to.



Now start back at the beginning. You can't go forward until you understand the basics. This is why it's so important to actually understand a verse before you begin to build anything upon it. It's like building a house without a foundation. Lord only knows what a mess you'd come up with.
I must have missed your point.

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popsthebuilder

New member
God is a Spirit....meaning He is unseen by the human eye.

John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.​

You cannot bring your gifts to an altar and worship at His feet.
He is A SPIRIT. He cannot be seen or bowed down to.



Now start back at the beginning. You can't go forward until you understand the basics. This is why it's so important to actually understand a verse before you begin to build anything upon it. It's like building a house without a foundation. Lord only knows what a mess you'd come up with.
You might ought to watch adding to scripture friend.

GOD is Spirit


Not a person, not three people sharing a single spirit....but Spirit.

Perhaps you noticed the Greek is both neuter and singular
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glorydaz

Well-known member
You might ought to watch adding to scripture friend.

GOD is Spirit


Not a person, not three people sharing a single spirit....but Spirit.

Perhaps you noticed the Greek is both neuter and singular

I use the KJV. You're adding to scripture...not me. "A Spirit" IS SINGULAR AND NEUTER in the version I quoted.

It's clear from the verse I gave that the "Spirit" was not talking about a person...but an UNSEEN being. Try paying attention to the verse for a change instead of leaping on your horse and taking off into parts unknown.
 

popsthebuilder

New member
I use the KJV. You're adding to scripture...not me. "A Spirit" IS SINGULAR AND NEUTER in the version I quoted.

It's clear from the verse I gave that the "Spirit" was not talking about a person...but an UNSEEN being. Try paying attention to the verse for a change instead of leaping on your horse and taking off into parts unknown.
Don't get sidetracked now. And don't confuse the Spirit with a spirit.

You just said it wasn't talking about a person, but to you GOD is three persons....so it wasn't talking about GOD when it said GOD is Spirit?

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popsthebuilder

New member
Yep...because you didn't actually read the verse. What is the verse talking about?
How GOD is not a person and how we shouldn't worship GOD as if a person or three. And how we should worship through Christ from our inner being.



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glorydaz

Well-known member
Don't get sidetracked now. And don't confuse the Spirit with a spirit.

:rotfl:

Poor pops...you're the one confused about the word spirit. It would help if you simply read the verse.

You just said it wasn't talking about a person, but to you GOD is three persons....so it wasn't talking about GOD when it said GOD is Spirit?

Read the verse. Is that really so hard? Here...let's try again.

John 4:24KJV
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.​

Now read the verse in context...

John 4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. 21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.​

You notice how Jesus used Father and God interchangeably? He is talking about the fact that God is a spiritual being....not that He is the Holy Spirit (who is a part of His being).

Notice how we are to worship God in "spirit". That means that unseen part of us that cannot be seen to be bowing down. In other words....non physical.

The question here in this verse is simply speaking of the non physical....not in Jerusalem, not at an altar, not where anything can be seen, but on a spiritual level.

Now, try to keep that in mind when you read the text. If you can't do that, I can't help you.
 

popsthebuilder

New member
:rotfl:

Poor pops...you're the one confused about the word spirit. It would help if you simply read the verse.



Read the verse. Is that really so hard? Here...let's try again.

John 4:24KJV
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.​

Now read the verse in context...

John 4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. 21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.​

You notice how Jesus used Father and God interchangeably? He is talking about the fact that God is a spiritual being....not that He is the Holy Spirit (who is a part of His being).

Notice how we are to worship God in "spirit". That means that unseen part of us that cannot be seen to be bowing down. In other words....non physical.

The question here in this verse is simply speaking of the non physical....not in Jerusalem, not at an altar, not where anything can be seen, but on a spiritual level.

Now, try to keep that in mind when you read the text. If you can't do that, I can't help you.
Don't worry ma'am.

I do not need nor want your help.

All the reading I do is within context.

Your assumption is boring these days.

Not so much as your arrogance though

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glorydaz

Well-known member
Don't worry ma'am.

I do not need nor want your help.

All the reading I do is within context.

Your assumption is boring these days.

Not so much as your arrogance though

You assume I worry about what you think? :shocked:

You'd be just as wrong about that as you are about the use of the word "spirit". Here....try and digest this one.

Mark 9:25 When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.​
 

popsthebuilder

New member
You assume I worry about what you think? :shocked:

You'd be just as wrong about that as you are about the use of the word "spirit". Here....try and digest this one.

Mark 9:25 When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.​
What is your point?

A foul spirit is in no way synonymous with the Spirit of GOD which is GOD.

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popsthebuilder

New member
God is a spirit being...He is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

I have no idea why you have such a foul spirit....being deaf and dumb. :idunno:
What was foul about anything I said?

You accused me of not knowing the difference between GOD and some other foul spirit.

I guess your comment was rather rhetorical.

I'm glad you are coming along in your theology though.

Hope you have a good evening.

peace

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glorydaz

Well-known member
What was foul about anything I said?

You accused me of not knowing the difference between GOD and some other foul spirit.

I guess your comment was rather rhetorical.

I'm glad you are coming along in your theology though.

Hope you have a good evening.

peace

You're a hypocrite....I guess you just can't admit it.
 
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