oatmeal
Well-known member
So you would never know if you married a woman or a man?
How weird
Are you suggesting that there is no longer any gender?
or is Galatians speaking of the spiritual realities, status, and roles of believers?
ECT Paul was a pentecostal Christian.
- Thread starter Lazy afternoon
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So you would never know if you married a woman or a man?
How weird
Are you suggesting that there is no longer any gender?
or is Galatians speaking of the spiritual realities, status, and roles of believers?
The kingdom of God is God's kingdom, his family. Where we are, he is.
Paul discusses the issue of tongues at length in I Corinthians 12-14; indeed, all of chapters 12-13 are building to his direct discussion of tongues in chapter 14. To emphasize tongues' relative unimportance, however, Paul is careful to always mention the gift last in his lists of gifts (along with the gift of interpretation of tongues; cf. I Corinthians 12:10, 28, 29-30). It is his specific purpose in his list of gifts in I Corinthians 12:28 to show which gifts are more important than others; again, tongues are last. He further shows the relative unimportance of tongues in I Corinthians 12:29-30 by pointing out that God never intended for everyone to have the gift.
Livelystone
New member
Paul was/is a Christian who went much further than just Pentecost !!!
Paul was/is a complete Christian who had the blessings of not just Pentecost when the Law of God is to be written on our hearts, but also Tabernacles that includes the spiritual understanding of these laws written on our hearts that are much more than a simple list of literal commandments of do's and do not do's................
Because of ALL of the above, in the end Paul received not just the blessings of Pentecost, but also the blessings associated with all of the fall feasts including the gift of lights (all knowledge) coming from Hanukah.
Unfortunately, churches and Christians operating only through a Pentecost anointing are oblivious to the truths associated with Tabernacles, as well as the rest of the fall feasts including the knowledge of the truth of our resurrection and eternal judgment...........
The truth of Pentecost is it is a necessary follow up to the blessing of Passover that is the seed of Christ planted within the "good ground" of hearts of called individuals because they were prepared by God and for God
Consequently, Pentecost is the blessing of the Holy Spirit given unto Christians that is the fire (sun/son) and water (spirit) from heaven needed for the seed that is Christ in us on earth to take root within us. Then, and only then, it will begin to grow in the image of the Tree of Life it came from because faith cometh from hearing the Word of God resulting in the mind of Christ being formed from the Holy Spirit already within the Christian whom is worshipping in both spirit and in truth.
This is the divinely guaranteed result of when those who already have the blessing of Pentecost are fed the truth that will allow the seed that is Christ in them to grow into Christ the Tree of Life in them that is the high calling of our profession.
Meanwhile, and sad to say, all of those who have been sidetracked with the doctrines of satan coming from the pulpit of all of the churches still stuck under the anointing of only Pentecost, (because they did not mature unto Tabernacles) will never see the fulness of Christ on earth matured in them.......... this you can take to the bank !!!
God bless those who have ears that hear what the Spirit has to say unto those who love and obey Him
Doug
Hi , and can not SPEAK for your self and need a Link that puts words in your mouth ??:baby::baby:
I do not need " word press " or are you scared !!:bang::bang:
Dan [
I realize that but the level of MAD is not even to that of Pentecost and we are discussing the fact that Paul was a biblical Pentecostal. and MADists have no hope of following Paul to where he got to, if they do not start as he did.
LA
Act 15:7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: "Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe.
Act 15:8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us,
Act 15:9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Act 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they."
Livelystone
New member
oatmeal
Well-known member
Note the phrase "in the church"
Tongues alone are of little value "in the church" unless interpreted, but is very, very valuable in one's private prayer life.
1 Corinthians 14 KJV
Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.
11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.
12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.
26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
40 Let all things be done decently and in order.
oatmeal
Well-known member
They were accustomed to living under the law.
Jesus Christ taught them that he was there to fulfill the law.
Having that knowledge that Jesus fulfilled the law, the apostles would be seeking and learning what had occurred on the day of Pentecost and in the days and years following.
They were learning grace, but they were not fully cognizant of all the significance of the day of Pentecost, they did not yet have Paul's epistles that clearly laid out all we need to know of this age of grace that began on the day of Pentecost.
Even as it took time for Moses and the children of Israel to receive and learn the law that God was giving to Moses, even so, the apostles and prophets in this age of grace were learning what God was teaching them about this age of grace.
Short answer? Yes.
Slightly longer answer? Yes, as much as they knew. Acts shows the transition from the law based gospels to the doctrines of this age of grace.
The fact of the matter is that this Greek verb need not mean chatter at all; it very often means simply "to speak" (e.g., Matthew 9:18). Paul uses this verb in verse 21, no doubt, because this is the verb used in the Septuagint which he is quoting. Furthermore, verses 34-35 of the same chapter use the verb to describe "asking questions." Finally, verse 16 equates it with lego, a Greek verb which always means "to speak" or "to say."
Cross Reference
New member
However, you express sufficient "doubt" that you should at least consider that you 'might' be wrong ___ but you won't. You are a hardhead.
You too!
The idea that tongues are for edification of self is completely unfounded; it is precisely contrary to all that Paul was building toward in I Corinthians 12-14. The apostle went to great lengths to emphasize that spiritual gifts are for edification of others. He says in I Corinthians 12:7 that gifts are "for the common good." Paul's love song in I Corinthians 13 is so beautiful, in and of itself, that oatmeal have missed its very point: he is showing that gifts must be exercised in love, and if they are exercised in love they will be exercised for the benefit of others, not self. "Love seeketh not her own" (verse 5) but focuses on others. To exercise a gift simply for its personal benefit would be a prostitution of it.
Cross Reference
New member
"One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church". 1 Corinthians 14:4 (NASB)
'nough said. Read your Bible again ___ for the first time. Well, maybe not your bible but one that has legitimacy.
Cross Reference
New member
Love or hate, notwithstanding, the gifts of the Spirit are manifest in any way the Holy Spirit deems they be so demonstrated. If the Spirit is He who teaches then why all of the sudden limit Him when He reproves or corrects from someone He so chooses??? __except for unbelief in that one who argues against the validity of His Presence being anything more than what they can conjure up by their unbelief?
oatmeal
Well-known member
the word laleo means to speak, however, being very general in meaning, it makes no reference to what is being spoken
to orate or to direct or to command or to instruct is more specific.
You could tell some one is speaking from a distance but not hear what is being said, laleo makes no reference to what is being spoken, but simply that speaking is occurring.
Thus it is the perfect word to use in speaking in tongues for the man speaking does not know what he is speaking (other than in very general terms, ie, God is giving the utterance, speaking the wonderful works of God) for the it is unknown language to the speaker
The speaker, in speaking in tongues, would not be speaking in tongues if it was a known language to him, for if it was a known language to him he would be speaking by his understanding.
I Corinthians 14:14-15
although at times, others in the same setting, may understand the language being spoken, that, because of practical reasons, does not often occur. There was one meeting in which I heard someone speak in tongues in Lithuanian, a language I am slightly familiar with, the words referred to the son, that was all I picked up of it.
When the apostles spoke in tongues on the day of Pentecost, there were many people there who spoke foreign languages. Since it was God giving the utterance, He could and did give the utterance in languages that the other people understood.
( Preaching is not the purpose of speaking in tongues, although, it would seem to be so based on the events in Acts 2. The response of the crowd made it clear that 1. speaking in tongues is speaking the wonderful works of God, praise and 2. it was languages of men, ( learning it could be languages of angels had to learned by direct revelation from God, for who but an angel or God would understand that? I Cor 13:1))
That was a miracle.
However, in a meeting a house, the shift for meetings was going from the synagogue to people's homes, the people would all be of the same geographic area and origin, hence, they all spoke the same language. Thus speaking in tongues would not only be unknown to the speaker, but to the everyone else, hence, the reproof from Paul to not speak in tongues out loud in such a meeting unless accompanied by the interpretation.
I Corinthians 14:6-13
Speaking in a language unknown to the listeners is not profitable. whether it is a simple conversation or supernatural like speaking in tongues