Partakers of the Body of Christ and the New Covenant
- Thread starter Tambora
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I am wondering if what you wrote , This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood and hat are you saying the Paul is saying we are under the new covenant ?
Covenant // diatheke has other meaning , like arrangement which is the right Greek word to use in 1 Cor 11:25 .
just asking ?
dan p
What other "new covenant" could it be since scripture only mentions one new covenant?
He is saying that by being a participant in the cup (blood of Christ) & the bread (body of Christ) makes one a participant of the body & the new covenant, for His body and blood were given for the benefit of the whole world.
No one is saved except by the sacrifice of His body and blood.
Right Divider
Body part
You mean the one that was new for Israel?
Heb 8:7-11 (AKJV/PCE)
(8:7) For if that first [covenant] had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. (8:8) For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: (8:9) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. (8:10) For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: (8:11) And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
The body of Christ gets the benefits of the blood of Christ without a covenant. We have no covenant, especially not one given only to Israel.
Israel and the body of Christ. Stop trying to erase what God has written.
John 4:22 (AKJV/PCE)
(4:22) Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
Rom 11:11 (AKJV/PCE)
(11:11) I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but [rather] through their fall salvation [is come] unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
Hi, I'm newbie here but an ol' geezer in the faith <g>. We don't tell the difference between the two. The point to the passage is in 1Cor 11:28. It has to do with self-examination. (See also 2Cor 13:5).
Yes! It applies to Gentiles as well, since Christ himself is the embodiment of the New Covenant (Isa 42:6; 49:8); therefore, by virtue of our union with him through the Holy Spirit, all Gentile believers are in a covenant relationship with the Father through the Son by the Holy Spirit.
I hope others take up learning Greek and go with the oldest versions of scripture. Others here and elsewhere have shaped my "theology" with knowledge.
Expound on this. What is a covenant? Isn't that a legal agreement between parties? What do the 2 parties have to do to remain in it?
Right Divider
Body part
No, it does not. The NEW covenant is between the same two parties as the OLD covenant.
Jer 31:31-33 (AKJV/PCE)
(31:31) ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: (31:32) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: (31:33) But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Repeated in Hebrews 8
Christ is BOTH the King of Israel and the head of the body of Christ.
That does NOT mean that they are the same thing.
1Cor 12:5 (AKJV/PCE)
(12:5) And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
That is pure mythology.
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Per Jer 31:31ff, the NC is unlike the Old. And I might add -- different in many ways and different qualitatively, as well. For example, the OC was bilateral in nature; whereas the NC is unilateral with respect to the redeemed. On the other hand, since Christ is the Federal Head of his Father's elect (cp Rom 5:12ff), the Father and Son entered into a covenant relationship in eternity (Eph 1:4-7) which is why this particular covenant is characterized as "eternal" (Heb 13:20). So, yes, there was an eternal "legal agreement" between Father & Son; for how else could any believer today have been predestined to be saved before the world began? How that happened was in Christ. Christ as our federal head agreed to make himself lower than the angels, take on humanity in the form of a lowly, humble servant, do his Father's will always, i.e. keep the Mosaic Law perfectly (Heb 10:9), pay the Law's prescribed penal code on behalf of the elect which he did on the Cross when he ratified the New Covenant in his own blood. The Father, on the other hand, (among other things) hand promised to make his Son a great king over all the nations (Isa 49:6). And in fact, in Jesus' high priestly prayer to his Father he prayed for the salvation of his disciples and all those who would believe on Him through their gospel preaching, and in that prayer (and this is very important) that his Jewish disciples and subsequent believing Gentiles would all be one, just as He and the Father are one (Jn 17:20-23; Gal 3:28). This is just a thumbnail sketch. Of course, the NC fulfills that part of the Abrahamic Covenant wherein God promised Abraham that he would make him the "father of many nations".
Right Divider
Body part
Per Jer 31ff, the new covenant is between God and Israel. It's crystal clear.
You'll believe just about anything.
The body of Christ is saved by the blood without a covenant. You've believed some falsehoods.
Believers today are not the nation of Israel, with whom God will make the new covenant, per Jer 31 and reconfirmed in Heb 8
Well, I guess per Mat 26:27-29, you will definitely not be drinking the "fruit of the vine" anew with Jesus in his Father's kingdom. After all, it is the "blood of the covenant" which is "poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins". If you're not washed clean of your sins by the blood of the covenant, then you are still in your sins, since you cannot possibly be included in the "many". For without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of anyone's sins (Heb 9:22). Moreover, since you categorically reject the "blood of the [new] covenant", you unwittingly reject Christ himself who is the very embodiment of that covenant (Isa 42:6; 49:8). Christ is ALL, and is in all (Col 3:11), and that means he is the New Covenant, just as He is the Way, the Life and Truth.
Re your last sentence above: But there are plenty of Jewish believer's today. So, are we supposed to believe that they are in the new covenant relationship with their redeemer, but Gentiles aren't? Or are messianic believers today also not in the new covenant relationship with their redeemer because they're still living in the "times of the Gentiles"? Or what about this "novel" idea: Believe what the Word says when it tells us that in this NC economy, there are neither Jews or Gentiles, slaves or free -- that we're all ONE in Christ. Christ's Body is not divided by ethnicity, as you would have us believe. Nor do Jewish or Gentile believers drink of a different Spirit (1Cor 12:13)! And this last teaching is also extremely problematic for you since the promise of the Holy Spirit is a NC promise (Ezek 36:24-27). And, of course, this was fulfilled at Pentecost. But how could Gentile believers be baptized (indwelt by) in the Spirit, since the promise in the above passage is made only to Jews? And scripture clearly teaches that if anyone doesn't have the Spirit of God, he does not belong to Christ (Rom 8:9).
You might want to think spend some time rethinking through your heretical doctrine. Just sayin'...
In the Body of Christ, there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile.
In the New Covenant, there is a distinction between Jew and Gentile.
Things that are different are not the same.
More in-depth reply to come.
Right Divider
Body part
Firstly, Jesus is speaking to SPECIFIC people there and not to everyone in general. It is this all too typical taking the scripture OUT OF CONTEXT that causes you (and most of Churchianity) so much confusion and error.
Matt 26:29 (AKJV/PCE)
(26:29) But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.
Secondly, I've already been translated into His kingdom.
Col 1:12-14 (AKJV/PCE)
(1:12) Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: (1:13) Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son: (1:14) In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:
The "blood of the covenant" refers to its relationship with those UNDER the covenant.
I've saved by the blood without a covenant!
Nope, the blood itself has washed me clean, no covenant needed.
Blood... not covenant for the body of Christ. We are NOT the nation of Israel, we are NOT the house of Israel nor the house of Judah.
You are wrong and totally so. I am in the body of Christ because I trust that Christ died for my sins, was buried and was raised again.
Nope, that is pure mythology. The Bible is clear and unambiguous that the NEW covenant is made with the SAME TWO PARTIES as the OLD covenant.
Firstly, the new covenant was initiated, but not established.
Secondly, the NEW covenant is between the same two parties as the OLD covenant: God and Israel.
You are a liar ... just sayin'
You should rethink your mythology and instead believe what the Bible says.
These could help you, but probably won't: https://graceambassadors.com/search?q=new+covenant&x=0&y=0#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=new covenant&gsc.page=1
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Matthew 26 is in the context of Matthew 15, where Jesus said: "I am not come except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father’s kingdom.”
Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 26:28, Matthew 26:29 - New King James Version
For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Remission does not mean forgiveness.
It means that the amount decreases.
I, a member of the Body of Christ, am saved...
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Bible Gateway passage: Titus 3:5, Titus 3:6, Titus 3:7 - New King James Version
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
Indeed:
For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
Bible Gateway passage: Romans 5:6, Romans 5:7, Romans 5:8, Romans 5:9, Romans 5:10, Romans 5:11 - New King James Version
Christ in Our Place - For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
I have been justified by His blood.
Hmmm... Question for you:
Who was the Epistle to the Hebrews written to?
No, what we reject is your interpretation of scripture that makes you think that the Body of Christ and Israel are the same thing.
Supra.
Is all of... What?
Jesus is not the New Covenant.
Jesus is the AUTHOR of the New Covenant.
He (along with Israel) are the two parties within that covenant.
Supra.
Amen!
Except it doesn't say that.
That's you assuming that the New Covenant and the gospel of the grace of God are the same thing.
What it says is that believers in the Body of Christ are neither Jew nor Gentile, under the gospel of the grace of God.
What it says is that Jews under the New Covenant are still distinct from Gentiles.
Indeed.
No one has said otherwise. That's just a straw man you've set up.
What we've said is that there is a difference between Israel under the New Covenant and Believers in the Body of Christ.
In the Body of Christ? Of course not.
For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. For in fact the body is not one member but many.
Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 12:12, 1 Corinthians 12:13, 1 Corinthians 12:14 - New King James Version
Unity and Diversity in One Body - For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ.
Israel, on the other hand, being NOT the Body of Christ, has a corporate relationship with God, as a nation, rather than a body made up of many members.
Reminder:
“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”
Bible Gateway passage: Jeremiah 31:31, Jeremiah 31:32, Jeremiah 31:33, Jeremiah 31:34 - New King James Version
A New Covenant - “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—
Pentecost has nothing to do with the Body of Christ.
The answer is simple: we are buried through Christ's death, and raised through His resurrection.
See Titus 3:5-7 above, and Romans 5:6-11 above.
Indeed.
You might want to spend some time learning what we actually believe before you start calling our beliefs "heretical doctrine," O' Confused One.
Just sayin'....
Not between Israel and the creator?
31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—
Seems that way.
2 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. ....For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”
And from Ezekiel
14 I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I, the Lord, have spoken it and performed it,” says the Lord.’ ”
21 “Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; 22 and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again. 23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.
You didn't answer my question: Are messianic believers today (right now) in the new covenant relationship with God or not?
The only things that are [very] different are the Old and New Covenants.
Access to the New Covenant was cut off shortly after Paul's conversion on the road to Damascus. There is currently no one (and hasn't been anyone) under the New Covenant since then.
Access will be made available upon the reaching of the fullness of the Gentiles, after which the Great Tribulation will resume.
Any new believers have been saved by the grace of God, not promised salvation through the New Covenant.
Again, the New Covenant, per Scripture, is between the same two parties: God and Israel.
Then no one is saved today. The covenant Jesus ratified in his own blood is the New Covenant. It is by the blood of THAT covenant by which many will be saved. The logical inference to your theology is that you are not saved, since you categorically reject being in a personal, intimate, covenant relationship with God through Christ, who just so happens to also be the embodiment of that covenant.
Wrong.
Correct.
Again, this covenant was made between the same two parties that the Old Covenant was made, God and Israel, as per Jeremiah 31 and Hebrews 8.
It has nothing to do with the Body of Christ.
Correct. Many in Israel will be saved by the blood of that Covenant.
But that is the New Covenant, one of law.
Not the gift of grace.
Law and grace are NOT the same thing.
The logical inference is that I am not saved under the New Covenant. Which is correct. I am not saved under the New Covenant.
However, to say that I am not saved, period, is false.
Rather, I am indeed saved under a different "covenant," one akin to the covenant God made with Abraham in Genesis 15.
Where have I done such a thing?
Quote me, please.
There are two Covenants God made with Israel, the New Covenant, and the Old Covenant. BOTH had a requirement to do something to remain in it.
There is a single "covenant" God made with the world, the dispensation of the grace of God, which does not require I do anything to remain in it.
Things that are different are not the same.
Supra.