Paul spoke truth.
Every time I engage with you I get the sense that I'm being persecuted.
pacifism for true Jesus' followers.
- Thread starter meshak
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Paul spoke truth.
Every time I engage with you I get the sense that I'm being persecuted.
steko, I have given you verse, after verse where Jesus and Paul tell us to turn the other cheek, forgive enemies, not to draw a sword, love enemies, etc....yet you haven't given one verse to support your war mongering, killing, and self defense claims.
Yeah, I'm a real war monger. :loser:
I seek to live a peaceable life, just like Paul said.
I disagree Lon.
In the New Testament, both Jesus and Paul give many verses supporting Pacifism. Here are just some:
Mt 5:44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
Lu 6:27 But I say to you that listen, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you,
Lu 6:35 But love your enemies, do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return
Mt 5:39 But I say to you, Do not make use of force against an evil man;
Mt 26:52 Then Jesus said to him, "Put your sword back into its place; for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.
1 Peter 3:9 Do not return evil for evil or reviling for reviling; but on the contrary bless, for to this you have been called, that you may obtain a blessing.
Ro 12.17-21 Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.
21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good .
1Th 5:15 See that none of you repays evil for evil, but always seek to do good to one another and to all.
1 Peter 2:23 When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten; but he trusted to him who judges justly.
Eph 6.12 For our struggle is not against enemies of blood and flesh
2 Co 10:4 The weapons with which we fight are not human weapons, but are mighty for God in overthrowing strong fortresses.
Matt 10.28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul
Is bombing Syria a "peaceable life"?
Did you support the bombing?
Most of America did.
Lon said the following about the bombing of Syria:
Do you agree with Lon?
Were you "very much for it"?
9 Syrians died in that bombing, including 4 children.
Assad killed 72, including 20 children.
So....somehow...killing 9 (including 4 children) is "peaceable", in order to prevent another 72 (including 20 children)?
Nowhere in the NT, will you find Jesus or Paul telling believers in Christ Jesus to do such a thing. In fact, the teachings of Jesus and Paul tell us to do the exact OPPOSITE.
Lon
Well-known member
I can pray for even ISIS. I generally pray for them to come to know the Lord Jesus Christ.
I do, but I think if I saw them breaking into your home with guns, I'd grab my shotgun. Why? Because we are to do good 'first' to the family of God.
If such were turned around, what would you do?
Let me take this one and talk about context. 1) Who is He talking to? Soldiers? Policemen? A Government?
Is He talking about 2) taking vengeance? Lending them your coat and expecting nothing in return while they are robbing you???? Killing you??? :think:
Or if they steal from you, don't report it. Read the context: Mat 5:39 But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Mat 5:40 And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well.
Mat 5:41 And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles.
Mat 5:42 Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.
Love Your Enemies
Mat 5:43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
Mat 5:44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
Mat 5:45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
Satan is your enemy :think: James 4:7
Does that mean to you 'perish' as in lose your salvation?
On TOL? How are you doing on that? I'm REALLY working on it!
Seems like good balance to me.
Again, who is this addressed to, specifically? The police force? Government? Soldiers? Paul wasn't telling soldiers to stop being soldiers.
He was called to it for a specific purpose.
etc. etc.
Lon
Well-known member
Aren't you quoting me without context? I said there was ample time to get everybody out of the way and I gave the warning as something I'm very much for, and destroying chemicals and planes as something I'm very much for, and stopping deaths as something I'm very much for. The non-lethal attempt, I'm very much for.
You aren't for even non-lethal force? You didn't say that, but aren't you jumping the gun yourself here?
Oh...it's the Grand Inquisition for Steko!
I feel so honored.
....and by the Grand Inquisitor himself!
Now you're confusing me.
Previously, you said the OC principles were still in place today.
Well, let's look at a few examples of what took place in the OT:
(Judges 19:25) ... So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go.
(Gen 19:8) Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them.
In Judges, a man offers his daughter and his friend concubine to the men outside, and tells them they can all have sex with them all night long.
In Genesis, it's almost the same situation, except this time Lot offers both his daughters to the men outside, and tells them they can all have sex with them all night long.
Back to Judges 19:25:
(Judges 19:25) So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go.
As we see above, the concubine was raped all night long by the men.
But that's not the worst of it.
Then:
(Judges 19:29) When he reached home, he took a knife and cut up his concubine, limb by limb, into twelve parts and sent them into all the areas of Israel.
As we see, after the poor concubine girl was raped all night long, she was then cut up into 12 pieces and sent to the twelve regions of Israel.
Now, I don't know about you, but I don't see anything like that in the New Covenant teachings of Paul.
So, why didn't the fathers of these daughters, and owner of the concubine in the two above events "do good first"?
Lon
Well-known member
Yes. If I were president, I'd have done just what Trump did. Perhaps Telestial is against us serving in government, the police, and military.
We'll have to wait for that to come out. As President, my duty would be to protect whom I can. I am sad anybody was killed, but stopping deaths, I believe, is the job of a country.
1 Peter 3:14
It seems he's jumped the gun for accusation. He obviously feels passionate about the material.
It seems, for a pacifist, he doesn't intend to play nice? I've admired Tet in the past, but this kind of quick-hearted accusatory isn't very pacifistic. Part of the verses given were to love and pray for enemies, perhaps while ripping into one's brothers? :think:
It is a nuisance.
Lon
Well-known member
A law to protect, given not just in Israel, but the world: to keep your guest safe at all costs. They didn't have shotguns back then.
I realize you feel passionate about this, but if attack and conquer are your immediate go-to's for debate, it isn't very pacifistic, for one, and it is too soon in thread to be trying to posturize people, for another. Ask questions, worry about your fast-draw later. Listen more, accuse less.
ROFL!
My point is that 9 innocent civilians (including 4 children) were killed in the "non-lethal" missile strike.
This is how it all starts......Assad killed 72, we killed 9 to prevent more from being killed.....the next thing you know......12 million Americans, Russians, and English were killed, while 8 million Germans, Japanese, and Italians were killed because it started with a few thousand innocents being killed by Germany and Japan.
After 5 years, a total of 80 million people were killed in WWII.
When Linoleum was following Stymie around, he told her she was a newsome.
hehe!
I just love this place!