pacifism for true Jesus' followers.
- Thread starter meshak
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Rosenritter
New member
That type of perspective "they are all my enemies" becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you treat people like your enemies what is the normal type of behavior to expect? JR might be a little extra snarky but those aren't exactly "nasty comments" considering what is tolerated from some of the posters on these boards.
Matthew 5:44 KJV
(44) But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
You say that this topic is about "Christians should not join the military" and I say that "not joining the military" is a worthless standard if it isn't a fulfillment of Love thy Neighbor as Thyself. If and when we learn to live the meaning of love as Christ describes, "not killing our neighbors" won't be an issue of fierce debate. If you do truly have enemies, how about using this as an opportunity to prove love in action?
1 Peter 3:15-16 KJV
(15) But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
(16) Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.
As an extension on that note, it wouldn't hurt to be ready to give an answer when asked questions on topics like these that you engage in. Shutting people out doesn't seem to be in the spirit of love thy neighbor either.
Rosenritter
New member
Your comment said that men are expected to be vicious, but that women are not. That's a sex-based standard; therefore sexist. Neither gender (male nor female) is innately closer to Christ, but your reply showed that type of bias.
Rosenritter
New member
You have a very strange definition of "attack." He has a point underneath that that isn't hard to counter, so why don't you calmly identify the error and address it?
Rosenritter
New member
Why don't you help us out by addressing his question. If you had done so sooner it wouldn't have repeated postings.
Scripture cited:
Luke 22:35-36 KJV
(35) And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
(36) Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
The contention is that this is an instruction for all of the followers of Jesus to buy swords.
1) For the Dispensationalist War Hawks out there, there is the fun opportunity to point out that "Jesus only said this to JEWS" and therefore it cannot be an instruction to those "the Dispensation of Grace." It may not be an argument that makes sense to you or me, but given the amount of MAD on this forum it could be funny to watch.
2) For a more sensible application of point one above, for those reading the statements in context, the next verse (37) places the intended application of his words for when "And he was reckoned among the transgressors" meaning when he would be seized and tried on the cross. Yet when real swords were used at the event Jesus said to put up the weapon and sheath it (meaning he didn't intend them to use actual swords at this event.) The words had limited scope of application and even within that application it didn't mean to use real swords.
3) Christ's own words in the gospel and Revelation indicate that he does not need his followers to fight with swords, and that he did not approve of Peter's action and that he will not necessarily protect us from the consequences that we bring upon ourselves with such actions; that the saints are rather to exhibit faith and patience.
Matthew 26:52-53 KJV
(52) Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
(53) Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
Revelation 13:8-10 KJV
(8) And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
(9) If any man have an ear, let him hear.
(10) He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
Or in other words, when you take the sword into your own hand, you are no longer under the protection of God.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Why are you tattling to another tattler like [MENTION=18255]Rosenritter[/MENTION]?
Do you find tattlers run in groups or all flock together?
How do you tattlers manage to get through the day in this world of grownups without receiving a much deserved spanking?
The grownups are laughing at your childish tattlings. :baby:
glorydaz
Well-known member
Why are you here if you hate Dispensationalists so much? You mock what you're too ignorant to understand.
Gripe and complain and lecture and report.
Big flaming baby pretending to be a believer, but preaching a mixed up bag of humanism, while scoffing at the truth when it's presented. :nono:
Yes, [MENTION=18255]Rosenritter[/MENTION], I'm addressing you.
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
that was only bait comment to pick a fight.
I am not naïve like you. You are a trin believer so you don't understand what is going. Your opinion is so subjective.
I get to the point without beating around the bush. They should know better since they claim to be saved.
There is no excuse for Christians in the military. My OP says it all.
Yes, I expect woman to be lady like. It sounds so ugly when venomous word come out of woman's mouth.
pacifism for true Jesus' followers.
Jesus followers should not endorse any kind of violent practice such as joining the military.
Here is my verses to back up my claim:
Luke 6:27-36 King James Version)
27But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
28Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
29And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.
30Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
31And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
32For if ye love them which love you what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. 33And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
34And if ye to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
35But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
36Be ye therefore merciful, as your Fatheralso is merciful.
and some more:
Matthew 26:52
“Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.
Matthew 5:9
Blessed are the peacemakers, For they shall be called sons of God.
Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm."
John 18:36
And His faithful disciple harmonize with Jesus' word:
For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. (2 corinthian 10:4-5)
Romans 12:17-21
17Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. 18If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. 19Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord. 20Therefore "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; If he is thirsty, give him a drink; For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head." 21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
II Corinthians 10:3,4
"For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds."
Ephesians 6:12
"For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places."
Jesus followers should not endorse any kind of violent practice such as joining the military.
Here is my verses to back up my claim:
Luke 6:27-36 King James Version)
27But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
28Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
29And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.
30Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
31And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
32For if ye love them which love you what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them. 33And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
34And if ye to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
35But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
36Be ye therefore merciful, as your Fatheralso is merciful.
and some more:
Matthew 26:52
“Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword.
Matthew 5:9
Blessed are the peacemakers, For they shall be called sons of God.
Jesus answered, "My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm."
John 18:36
And His faithful disciple harmonize with Jesus' word:
For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. (2 corinthian 10:4-5)
Romans 12:17-21
17Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. 18If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. 19Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord. 20Therefore "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; If he is thirsty, give him a drink; For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head." 21Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
II Corinthians 10:3,4
"For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds."
Ephesians 6:12
"For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places."
Rosenritter
New member
Meshak, would you please state for the record how many different people post from your account? Because maybe a second person posting would explain false statements like "you are a trin believer" and render them not false but merely mistaken.
Rosenritter
New member
Cornelius was in the Roman military before he was baptized. He was still blessed with the Holy Spirit. Wouldn't you say that being part of the military before conversion is at least some excuse?
ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
or serving as a military chaplain?
Rosenritter
New member
Doesn't a military chaplain imply that God's blessing is with the army and the war effort and the country, just by their presence? Or to put this another way, how could someone who believes that Christians should not take up arms against their fellow man (under the flag of war or otherwise) serve as a military chaplain when they would thus endorse said conflict?
I am not familiar with how military chaplains are governed, but what would the military do to a chaplain that advised the soldiers to lay down their arms as the application of how Christ instructed us and to "love our enemies?" Isn't a military chaplain simply an extension of the state in this regard?
why do you ask such laim question like those bully posters?
do you have to go so low?