ECT Our triune God
- Thread starter Lon
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A son devoted to His father could never do that especially if having the vision of His Father and the joy of it all set before Him as Jesus experienced.
That would have been against the rules of engagement. All the heaven;ly host were watching Him very closely that He defeat Satan on his own turf much as Satan defeated Adam on his. both . . . . without the manifest presence of Father.
He would have has no choice and lose the battle in doing so. If you think about it, Jesus had His opportunity to do just that at His Transfiguration on the Mt. We might discuss how He could have an still be Lord.
The cup was the will of God that secured redemption, a whole new way of living that was completely dependent upon the Love of Jesus, the man. [Scarcely a righteous man would what ... give his life?]
And in the process all humanity would have been destroyed. Satan would have neutralized God.
Not hardly either way. Acquiessence would be more like it.
Yes. Who could have saved mankind had Jesus failed. . . . . Who could have saved him had He lost the vision and succumbed to the pressures. There was no other human as Himself nor could there be another to perform what only He could have performed. It was a one shot at it deal and thank God, He won.
This is truly what makes him worthy of our praise, is it not?
Amen!! Amen! There is much conjectured speak concerning His victory or His failure and many things that were a stake.
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
No body has free will, even Jesus' choice was still dictated by the limits God set.
As far as we are concerned everything is pre destined, if Jesus had made a different choice scripture would have been understood differently.
Nobody would have written the lamb slain from the foundation of the world afterwards of Jesus sweating blood instead of shedding blood.
Except maybe Zeke, Freelight and Caino.
I have free will, I don't know what yours is
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1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
John 17:5 KJV
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was .
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1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
What I'm saying is that you don't know what would have happened if Jesus had shed his blood by merely sweating it and not gone to the cross.
You do a lot of presuming.
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Show me where I have? I used the the word "conjectured" you conveniently choose to ignore/overlook.
No more of this with you. My bad for allowing to you to waste my time.
Lon
Well-known member
"If I remember." Thanks for the correction.
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
You, like virtually everyone else, do not understand Epistemology. The will is the "strectching forth in tension" (intention) of the mind toward the object as subject.
The will is always the application of the mind, whether sub-cognitive (unaware) or cognitive (aware).
A renewed mind means the will being subject to God and His righteousness, meaning we are bond-servants.
An unrenewed mind means the will is enslaved to sin (the noun) as the condition within the nature (physis) of the being (ousia) and within the members of the body (soma).
Everyone has a will, and it functions within certain parameters. Nobody's will is "free", for man's will is merely boulema and cannot inherently accomplish all that it might take counsel to do.
The will is only as "free" as the mind that applies it via intention. And neither the mind nor the will can accomplish God's righteousness, whether inwardly in character or outwardly in conduct.
Nowhere in scripture is "free" will spoken of. It's a construct of varying influences throughout the last two millennia and before.
Your will can only be as free as the quality of renewal in the spirit of your mind.
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
Okay, sorry.
I agree with most of what you said.
The part I'm having trouble with is you saying Jesus did it without the manifested presence of God.
What do you mean by that?
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
It means he's a Hegelian Kenoticist, and Unitarians are better off than they.
PneumaPsucheSoma
TOL Subscriber
If you'll go back and read both our posts carefully, you'll see that you mis-spoke and were the source of the confusion.
You say "the Holy Spirit is ONLY THE Teacher of truth", rather than "the Holy Spirit is THE ONLY Teacher of truth".
Check it out.
Jesus was glorified by the Father about 2000 years ago as was intended before the foundation of the world.
Joh 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
Christ was slain before the foundation of the world.
It pays to read the OT to see how God has written concerning Jesus.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Which post?
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
I don't know.
But as of now I'm thinkin' the fate of man rested in the choice Jesus made while sweating blood.
To me that means we might have lived with Jesus eternally but never being able to know God as we are known by him.
Life without the glory so to speak.
Interesting..... :think: