ECT Our triune God

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
Truth and Peace are One...

They are not hurlers of accusations...

A.


The Orthodox, the Latins, and Protestants of every ilk have all been hurlers of accusations. I guess nobody is a Believer with Truth and Peace.

Maybe others are empassioned because they're disgusted with errors that left them lost for nearly three decades. That would be me.

Maybe it's pleading for someone to listen and understand instead of just regurging inherited rote dogma.

Everywhere I look... Nominal indoctrinates with little revelation or actual stewardship. Soror1 has been at least a breath of freshness.

You were such until retreating into your Orthodox tortoise shell.
 

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
That's one way to look at it (assuming a sanctified mind--which I do believe those who were using it have), sure.

So... The Holy Spirit (in true Gnostic fashion) would then be the "Mommy" "person"? I'm not down with anything like that.

God is a singularity beyond any familal concept or construct. A family is a pleroma.

Wealth is (in one sense) a metaphor for essence or be-ing. What is the wealth of God if not His be-ing--the divine life and all of its resources?

I'm not even remotely convinced Arsenios is referring to ousia metaphorically as wealth.

I can, do, and have concurred with you. He insists essence and be-ing are NOT wealth for God.

Anyway, there are different senses of hypostasis and ousia so let's look at it here:

The term ‘ὑπ όστασις’ had two basic groups of usages in the Greek language: “in one group of usages the term derives its purport from the middle voice of the verb ὑ φίστημι , and in another from the active voice. Hereafter it may mean either that which underlies, or that which gives support” (Prestige 163). In the former sense the term is synonymous with the term Ousia; “it meant a single object of which the individuality is disclosed by means of internal analysis, an object abstractly and philosophically a unit” (Prestige 163-167). In its second sense though, the term ‘ὑπ όστασις’ had a different emphasis; “here the emphasis falls not on the content but externally concrete independence, objectivity in relation to other objects” (Prestige 168-169). In all probability, the second sense was unknown to the Westerners; therefore, when hearing ‘ὑπ όστασις’, Westerners thought of Ousia, and not something like persona (Prestige, 1959). Still the potential for misunderstanding was enormous, because it was not enough to claim the unity of God, or the equality of the hypostases or personæ. It was necessary to explain the words from Scripture which ascribed to each of the three one particularity: ἀγεννησία, γέννησις and ἐκπόρευσις. The distribution of these particularities, though, could only make sense when holding on to the principle of monarchy; yet, how could this monarchy be explained? If the monarchy was rooted in the hypostasis of the Father, did not then the idea of eternal co-sharing of Ousia [wealth - Soror] by the other two hypostases allow for the principle of monarchy to be situated in the common Ousia [wealth - Soror]? Most likely, it was at exactly this point that the two theological traditions took two different paths. One was expressed by the Cappadocians, who alleged that the monarchy of the hypostasis of the Father constituted the key to the elaboration of the doctrine (Alexopoulos 150), while the other tradition, expressed by Augustine, referred to the unity of God—‘una substantia’—as the fundament of the Trinitarian doctrine (McKenna, 1963)...

...The terminological tradition of the Cappadocians advanced “the position of the objective triplicity of God as the basis of their thought, and from there, having presumed the equality of the three hypostases, went to the assertion that these three hypostases must constitute a single identical Ousia [wealth - Soror]” (Prestige 242). Yet, why was this order of thought of great importance for them? Clearly, this notional prerequisite for the further doctrinal elaboration was concerned with stating the ontologisation of the category of person, an idea derived from the Scriptural source. This means that the Cappadocians’ terminology overcame the division between person and substance by having construed the category of person/hypostasis as an ontological rather than as a functional entity (Colins 144). The category of person was by no means a passive attribute/accident of the being/Ousia [wealth - Soror]; instead, it was an active owner of being [wealth - Soror](Alexopoulos 154). For this reason the Cappadocians use the doctrine of ἀρχή, according to which there is a logical, but not a temporal priority between three divine Persons; the divine ὑπόστασις of the Father (ἀγέννητος) is not superior to the hypostases of the Son and the Holy Spirit with reference to their modes of existence (γεννητός, ἐκπορευόμενος) (Prestige 245-249). Basil’s treatise (de Spir. Sanct. 63)advances this idea considerably; he describes the relationship between the divine Persons by using the phrase “be with” (συνεῖναι) instead of “be in” (ἐνεῖναι). Heat, for instance, is said to reside ‘in’ a hot iron (from which it is separable) but ‘with’ the actual fire. Of course, the explicit intent of this metaphor is to express the intimate, inherent, and inseparable relation between the divine Persons. Implicitly, however, it underlines the objectivity of the divine Persons (against any monistic representation) and their equality (against any subordinationism). Yet, this idea of Basil the Great was often misrepresented as an inauspicious slide of his doctrinal elaboration into pluralism/tritheism (Prestige 282-287). Resulting from this misunderstanding, tritheism was often imputed to the Cappadocian Fathers; such imputations, however, strike as naïve unwarranted conclusions, because Cappadocians complied their metaphors of three distinctive hypostases with the conception that divine Persons contain each other (χωρητικός, περιέχεσθαι) (Gregory of Nyssa, Adv. Ar. Et Sab. 12). According to this concept, each hypostasis makes a headway in the next hypostasis (from the Father through the Son to the Holy Spirit) and simultaneously a back motion (from the Holy Spirit through the Son back to the Father), because the hypostases are receptive and permeative with each other (Prestige 289). Thus, a new ontology developed in which being God means to be in communion (Zizioulas, 1985). Orthodoxy is only preserved in such terms.​


ALL of this points to the crucial need of understanding God as a Uni-Hypostatic Multi-Phenonenal Trinity instead of according to historical error and fallacy.

What is necessary to note concerning Augustine’s reception of the doctrinal elaborations of the Cappadocians is his acknowledgement of the dissimilarities between the Cappadocians and the Latins, which neither alarmed nor surprised him (de Trin. VII. 4 (7)). As Prestige indicates, “for Augustine both the Greek and Latin doctrine was legitimate, provided that such expressions are understood only in a mystery, for God can be more truly conceived than expressed, and exists more truly than He can be conceived; the transcendence of the godhead surpasses the powers of ordinary discourse” (237). Yet, what motivated his choice to couch the Trinitarian doctrine in different terms? And what were its implications? Importantly, Augustine admitted that he did not really see why the term “three Persons” should be used (Gunton 40).

This last has been my long-standing contention, though inclusive of other reasons, against three "persons". Plus the fact that there aren't three hypostases.

He stated: “this formula was decided upon, in order that we might be able to give some kind of answer when we were asked, what are the three4” (Gunton 40). He further states that “the particulars in the same Trinity that are properly predicated of each person are by no means predicated of them as they are in themselves (ad se ipsa), but in their relation either to one another or to the creature (ad alios), and it is therefore manifest that they are predicated relatively, not substantially” (qtd. Gunton 40-41). Gunton sees the difference between the Augustinian and the Cappadocian doctrine in that “for the latter the three Persons are what they are in their relation, and therefore the relations qualify them ontologically” (41).

And this, among other minutiae, is why Augustine was accused of confounding the "persons". And I agree that He did.

Strictly speaking, for the Cappadocians it is the relatedness of hypostases that constitutes the substance [wealth - Soror] [6], whereas for Augustine an unknown substance [wealth - Soror] supports the three persons (Gunton 43)... http://www.bogoslov.ru/en/text/4213608.html
Either way we get to wealth--"Do not be afraid, Abram. I am your...exceedingly great reward."

And I don't disagree. I'm the one who insisted that neither essence nor be-ing could be excluded from defining ousia, just as wealth cannot be excluded.

:)

I haven't seen where our dear Arsenios does that unless I've missed something.

You haven't read back far enough, or realized where he did so this last time. He insists that multiple hypostases in union is hypostatic union rather than perichoresis. He has always combined or conflated them.

Merely speaking of hypostases in union isn't the Hypostatic Union.

EXACTLY. Please inform Arsenios.



Definition:

Hypostatize
verb (used with object), hypostasized, hypostasizing.
1.
to assume the reality of (an idea, proposition, etc.); hypostatize.

Hypostatize
v. To make into a distinct substance; to conceive or treat as an existing being; to hypostatize.



Most simply... Between hypostaTize and hypostaSIze, I would delineate that one may refer to the traditional 1800s meaning for the classic multi-hypostatic Trinity.

That definition is problematic, including not just another "person" but a "being". At the least, it's an assumption of reality indicating non-eternality.

The other spelling is what I would use to demonstrate the hypostasizing of God's singular hypostasis in multi-phenomenality at the external filiation/procession.
 
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PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
Why would he do that?

Because he vehemently eschews the Scholastics, as do I.

There is a handful of (rather rabidly) fundie Orthodox and Arsenios doesn't strike me as one of them--the well-balanced others see the two either as an issue of language/semantics (not as glossing it but as when it's studied in its (enormous) depth) or as complementary, not contradictory.

My long-standing impression is that he rejects it all.

The real issue is the addition to the Ecumenical Creed (which was wrong) and the overreach of the Papacy (also wrong).

Filioque and Papal authority. Right.


Are you saying you reject the Filioque? Good for you, if so.
 

Arsenios

Well-known member
Yes, it's very easy. Multiple divine BEINGS sharing infinite wealth. Very Gnostic and/or Hinduisitic.

And worldly... You are equating Person with Being in God in your understanding, and this can only be affirmed in creation, and only then can logical inferences hold water...

What you do not seem able to grasp is multiple Persons in one Ousia, where these Persons form the Hypostases that stand under their uncreated Wealth, which defines their co-essentiality as God...

Stated another way, the Christian God is a Communion of Persons Who HAVE a single Ousia - One mind, one will, one center, all the cataphatic attributes you may care to attribute... Yet indeed, none of these, in that these are terms of creation, as are all terms... And the Persons are the Hypostases that stand under and support the wealth that they ARE...

And God is bringing US into that Communion that IS God... And that Communion is one of Persons HAVING a single Ousia...

You've offered nothing but bare assertion and creation-based metaphoric analogy.

These are not helpful, my friend...

No. I've intuited through theosis for noesis, with confirmation of lexicography and exegesis. I "encounter" God in His timelessness while being hypostatically translated into Christ.

By stating this, you show that you do NOT know theosis as the Fathers experience it, and have instead found a basis for lexical opinion, which has nothing to do with theosis, but can have everything to do with noesis...

Maybe we need to talk about noesis...

Cookie cutters aren't cookies.

Thank - you -

The Father is not the Son...

The defense rests...

The express image OF a hypostasis is NOT another hypostasis.

The hypostasis acting AS a cookie cutter cuts an express image into the wax - You seem to be saying that the image in the 'wax' is the hypostasis?? And not ANOTHER image created by the hypostasis which IS the "cookie cutter"... [That is a strange way to speak...]

You begin with a fallacy because the Patristics began with a fallacy.

THEN STOP!!!! A hypostasis is not a "person". Faith is a hypostasis.

And in the same way that faith CAN BE an hypostasis, so also CAN a person BE an hypostasis...

quid - erat - splat !!

At least address Opera Ad Intra and fontal plenitude/innascibility, paternity/filiation, and spiration/procession, etc. in a way that could debunk the Scholastic Latins.

These are not Patristic terms...

You haven't and can't, so you're not ready for the challenge of the revelation that has reconciled both you and them to the truth you've both subtly missed for nearly two millennia while presuming complete infallibility in the midst of the chaos you've fostered for centuries.

Sigh.....................

Oh waaah!

Get off your Sigh and Sniffles!

We affirm the primacy of the Mystery, and disciple the deeds wherein is fallen man entered into the Glory of God...

You affirm the primacy of the logical contrivances of fallen man to explain the Mystery, which you debunk...

The difference is fundamental, primal, and profound...


Arsenios
 

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
And worldly... You are equating Person with Being in God in your understanding,

No, it's the inverse. You skate on a technicality that you manufactured yourself. (Well... The Orthodox did and do, and you are "them".)

and this can only be affirmed in creation, and only then can logical inferences hold water...

I'm not the one attempting (il-)logical inferences. I'm not the one equating God to creation. That's you.

And you deny the very fundamental definition of ousia as the present participle feminine of eimi.

What you do not seem able to grasp is multiple Persons in one Ousia,

I grasp it completely. It's just wrong.

And now (in your now-typical inconsistency) the alleged "persons" are IN the ousia rather than "having" the ousia. You flip-flop around so much with your own semantics, it starts to be like nailing Jell-O to the wall as you play both sides against the middle.

where these Persons form the Hypostases

Now "persons" "form" the hypostases? Yikes. Probably just another of your weird flip-flop of expressions, I'd suppose.

that stand under their uncreated Wealth, which defines their co-essentiality as God...

There is nothing to differentiate this from three divine BEINGS, no matter how you couch it.

The first order of business would be accounting for there even being three hypostases. You've never done that.

At least the Scholastic Latins do have a history of attempting to do so. The Orthodox just make the bare assertion.

Stated another way, the Christian God is a Communion of Persons Who HAVE a single Ousia

So you say with rote bare assertion... again. Yak.

- One mind, one will, one center,

Have you finally settled on this? Or will you revert to multiple minds or no mind for God as the Creator OF minds? Which will it be?

all the cataphatic attributes you may care to attribute...

Eternity, Infinity, Immutability, Immateriality, Impassibility, Immateriality, Simplicity, Necessity, Aseity, Immensity, etc. are... wait for it... wait for it... APOPHATIC.

Yet indeed, none of these, in that these are terms of creation, as are all terms...

Hello?!? They're apophatic. Non-/In-/Im-"whatever". Infinite is non-finite. The opposite of creation.

And the Persons are the Hypostases that stand under and support the wealth that they ARE...

Pure conjecture that can equate to multiple BEINGS.

And God is bringing US into that Communion that IS God...

Yes, at least the Orthodox "get" the ontological aspect to a great degree, which is why I was pursuing the Antiochian tradition for some time. Now I see the futility and fallibility that can never be challenged from within, so I'll stay outside of Eastern tradition where God can reveal Himself without all the trappings and dearth of dogma and nominal Christianity.

And that Communion is one of Persons HAVING a single Ousia...

Great. Just a bit up your posts, the alleged multiple hypostases were IN the ousia, and now they HAVE the ousia. Yak.

These are not helpful, my friend...

Nor is the historical Multi-Hypostatic Trinity. It's too easily a functional Tritheism.

The sad thing is you're not even concerned about Tritheistic emulation. Scary.

By stating this, you show that you do NOT know theosis as the Fathers experience it,

Another bare assertion.

and have instead found a basis for lexical opinion,

Lexicography came after, as confirmation.

which has nothing to do with theosis, but can have everything to do with noesis...

Maybe we need to talk about noesis...

You can talk about whatever you want. It falters when you don't even comprehend multi-phenomenality.

Thank - you -

The Father is not the Son...

Right.

The defense rests...

Bad move.

The hypostasis acting AS a cookie cutter cuts an express image into the wax -

"Acting as"? So the Father-cookie now "acts as" a cookie cutter? LOL. No. Charakter is not a term represented by "cookie cutter".

You seem to be saying that the image in the 'wax' is the hypostasis??

Not me. Scripture. The inspired canon compiled by... the Orthodox.

And not ANOTHER image created by the hypostasis which IS the "cookie cutter"... [That is a strange way to speak...]

So... Here we go. ANOTHER image, and it's now created. And it's YOUR strange way to speak.

And in the same way that faith CAN BE an hypostasis, so also CAN a person BE an hypostasis...

quid - erat - splat !!

Well... There you have it. Faith is another God-"person". Four hypostases. Why stop before a pleroma? They're the same kind of divine beings, so there might as well be a pantheon.

These are not Patristic terms...

That was the point. They're Scholastic Latin terms to debunk.

Oh waaah!

Get off your Sigh and Sniffles!

LOL.

We affirm the primacy of the Mystery,

You're actually still stuck at mmmmmmmmmm-, and denying it's revelation in Christ as -usterion. I know.

and disciple the deeds wherein is fallen man entered into the Glory of God...

You partially do this. It can easily just be works methodology as the quality of the law rather than faith and grace. The Reformed at least understand some tier of functionality that the Orthodox gloss.

You affirm the primacy of the logical contrivances of fallen man

No. This is your false accusation. And those IN Christ are not fallen.

to explain the Mystery,

No. To convey the mystery revealed, since God hath spoken to us by His Son and did not stutter.

which you debunk...

I only debunk the fallacy of Multi-Hypostaticism supplanting the truth of Multi-Phenomenality.

The difference is fundamental, primal, and profound...

Arsenios

Yes. The Multi-Hypostatic Uni-Phenomenal Trinity is fundamentally, primally, and profoundly ... WRONG.
 

Arsenios

Well-known member
So, what happens when we inherit the ranch?

I thought you would never ask! :)

We were created by God to inherit the Ranch by Grace...

Through repentance in the Faith Christ gave us...

We can get an earnest of it here and now, in this life...

The full meal deal comes in the Age to Come...

Adam was to inherit it, and failed...

Because...

He turned from God to the Serpent and died...

The Saints have the inheritance here and now...

They live in God's will alone...

They live supra-natural lives...

Prophetic and miracle working...

The rest of us just schlepp along...

Arsenios
 

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
Well, that's how read it but, the earnest is the down payment ... are we truly going to fully share the divine nature? ...the one shared by this "trinity" that all the fuss is about?

Yes. In this life, Believers are hypostatically translated into Christ, and thus are filled with the Holy Spirit.

Since the hypostasis (substance) underlies the ousia (being) and its physis (nature), the hypostasis determines the quality and character of the physis. So the translation of this inner man into the resurrected, ascended, seated hypostasis of Christ is the means of our current access (through the Spirit) to the divine nature He shares with the Father as one ousia (being).

This hypostatic union with Christ is how the very nature of God influences our own, which has been tainted with sin. Grace is that influence, and is the unmerited free gift of God to those who believe.

The imputed righteousness of our sanctification in Christ is then worked out to the outer man. And Christ's hypostasis changes us from within, also determining the quality and character of our nature; and thus our being.

At the final resurrection and ensuing judgment, our outer man is cleansed by the consuming fire of God; and all that was of sin is burned as wood, hay, and stubble. Then our spotless prosopon (outer man) as our glorified body is that with which we are clothed upon.

With no more sin in our nature or members, we are then wed to our husband for all everlasting. In this glorified state, we will partake of the fullness of our inheritance, which is the everlasting partaking of His divine nature.

And it helps to understand that God's mind and will are faculties that are within the nature of His being. So we are, for all everlasting, being filled with the quality and character of the mind and will of God... in Christ.

Putting on Christ and being in Christ are not metaphors. It is the literal hypostatic state of being for all Believers as we await the full inheritance for which we have the deposit (earnest).

We are the Bride of Christ. Betrothed now, and one in all but flesh. But the consummation will come, and our glorified bodies will be one with Him for all everlasting.

We never become divine, but are divinized as our nature is perfectly and completely conformed to God's by being one flesh with His Son.
 

Lon

Well-known member

Hebrews 1:8 But of the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.

John 20:28 Thomas said to Jesus "You are my Lord and my God."

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

1Jn 2:22 Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also.
1Jn 2:24 Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son and in the Father.
1Jn 2:25 And this is the promise that he made to us—eternal life.

Scripture clearly names Him God.

 

fzappa13

Well-known member

Hebrews 1:8 But of the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.

John 20:28 Thomas said to Jesus "You are my Lord and my God."

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

1Jn 2:22 Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also.
1Jn 2:24 Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son and in the Father.
1Jn 2:25 And this is the promise that he made to us—eternal life.

Scripture clearly names Him God.


Apologies if that was intended to be the period on the sentence that is this thread but there are several pregnant questions still awaiting birth here and your post reminded me of that.
 

oatmeal

Well-known member

Hebrews 1:8 But of the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.

John 20:28 Thomas said to Jesus "You are my Lord and my God."

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

1Jn 2:22 Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also.
1Jn 2:24 Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son and in the Father.
1Jn 2:25 And this is the promise that he made to us—eternal life.

Scripture clearly names Him God.


Indeed it does as it likewise does for Moses. Exodus 7: KJV and many other people that scripture and Jesus is recorded as referring to. John 10:34-35.

That being true because scripture points it out, there are many people that God refers to as God, most notably, but not exclusively, Jesus Christ

The word "god" or "God" is a title given by God to himself and to humans who represent or are supposed to represent God.

Why do you trins continue to ignore these truths?
 

Arsenios

Well-known member
And what of those created before and after the appearances of the Christ?

Like us, they will be judged by their deeds, good and evil...

The inheritance after Christ is here and now in an earnest...

The Kingdom of Heaven is here and now, as John the Baptist proclaimed...

THAT has not changed, and prior to the coming of Christ, it was THERE AND THENCE - All the Prophets foretold it, but only John laid his hands on the Christ Whom he foretold...

The Gospel of Christ is this:

Be ye repenting and baptized...
FOR...
The Kingdom of Heaven is AT HAND...
It is now suffering violence...
And the violent are taking it by force [eg repentance]
And Lo, I am with you...
Unto the end of the Age...

Paul preached Christ Crucified...
THAT is the violence of repentance...

IF ANYone is WILLING...
After Me to be following...
Let him FIRST...
DENY HIMSELF...
And THEN take up his own cross...
And be following Me...

For whoever is willing to lose his life...
Shall find it...

Arsenios
 
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Lon

Well-known member
Indeed it does as it likewise does for Moses. Exodus 7: KJV and many other people that scripture and Jesus is recorded as referring to. John 10:34-35.

That being true because scripture points it out, there are many people that God refers to as God, most notably, but not exclusively, Jesus Christ

The word "god" or "God" is a title given by God to himself and to humans who represent or are supposed to represent God.

Why do you trins continue to ignore these truths?

Because they are thin. In the one case, they are rare and rather the term means 'representative of God,' not "god" nor "God." We are in no ways 'gods' but rather creatures of Him. This was not the case at all with Christ Jesus our Lord. The equivocations are much more clearly pronounced that He was God, and there is ONLY one God. That necessitates a triune position. If you embraced those terms and scriptures, in that way, you'd be considered Trinitarian as well. It embraces the dilemma without coming down on one side or the other as opposed to other scripture revelation.

Think of it more as saying: "I think the rest of you, Unitarians, Arians, and Oneness-Modalists, etc. have gone too far. We don't know exactly and so leave it a 'mystery' because that is where scripture leaves us."

On that, you'd actually have to take a step back from assertion to join the rest of us embracing a mystery (what we see as through a glass darkly).

For the most part, though I acknowledge some genuine incompatibility, the Trinitarian position is a matter of saying the rest have gone too far in speculation. IOW, the Trinitarian position 'is' the mediating position.
 

Lon

Well-known member
Apologies if that was intended to be the period on the sentence that is this thread but there are several pregnant questions still awaiting birth here and your post reminded me of that.
Not at all. You are fine. It wasn't in reference to anything going on here in these last thread pages but rather me posting in line with my OP.

and taking a moment for more thread thank you's:
Continuing my thanks in thread for those who have contributed and upheld the triune view:

Thank you Tftn528 for giving orthodox perspective and clarity and carrying the thread
Thank you Musterion for three distictions/one God as simply as you could put it
Thank you Patrick Jane for requesting theology be tangible while trying to ascend at the same time :up:
Thank you JsJohnnt for summarizing Colossians 1:17 and John 15:5 *(imho/summation) and carrying the thread
Thank you IntoJoy for the triune expression in Isaiah
Thank you Arsenios for showing Revelation 5 reveals the Lord Jesus Christ as God and for also carrying the thread
Thank you Ps82 for honoring the triune view and the OP and giving your best understanding of our Triune God
Thank you Angel4Truth only God can forgive sin
Thank you Psalmist for the scripture references and affirmation
Thank you Ask Mr Religion for handy charts and references
Thank you PneumaPsucheSoma again for forgiveness as well as championing this thread
Thank you Jedidiah for asking appropriate questions of those who needed to think about what is orthodox
Thank you Bright Raven, not only for your Triune stance, but your support of me on TOL as well
Thank you GloryDaz for reminding that there is one Lord
Thank you Soror1 and brinny just for keeping the other guy busy and asking good thread questions too
Thank you nikolai_42 for always coming up with appropriate scriptures
Thank you fzappa for providing a bit of demonstrative irony for moments I've chuckled


Again, I want to thank mods for all your work and support with bans and removals.
Thank you (and apology) also if I missed anyone.
Also, I realized I've thanked a few of you again but it was the better than trying to keep track and I'm also doubly and triply thankful (and then some)
 
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Arsenios

Well-known member
There are many people that God refers to as God,
most notably, but not exclusively, Jesus Christ

The word "god" or "God" is a title given by God to himself and to humans who represent or are supposed to represent God.

Why do you trins continue to ignore these truths?

Psalm 82
God ... judgeth among the gods.
Ye are gods...
Children of the most High...
But ye shall die like men...


The gods were unable to recover from their fall in Adam...
Even in the power of the Holy Spirit...
Their recovery is only by enhypostatic rebirth in Christ...
Because...
Christ is God...
Christ is God.

Nowhere will you find Christ described as a child of God, but always as the Son of God... This is because He is fully God with the Father and the Holy Spirit, the Giver of Life...

We encounter the one God in Three Persons...
The Person of the Father... Matthew 16:17
The Person of the Son... The Incarnation
The Person of the Holy Spirit... The Prophets

For us, the Trinitarian God is but descriptive of our encounters with the One God in these Three Holy Persons...

Trinitarian Theology is thus simply empirical...

How do you read Psalm 82?

Arsenios
 
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