Shasta and Turbo, at what point in your lives did you become a member
of the Body of Christ, and how did you become a member?
of the Body of Christ, and how did you become a member?
"OSAS" people are not answering this question.
- Thread starter redpill4vr
- Start date
A "real" Christian ought to be able to give a personal "Testimony" of
how and when they became a child of God. If they can't, then perhaps
they're not saved to begin with?
how and when they became a child of God. If they can't, then perhaps
they're not saved to begin with?
Many on TOL, refuse or are unable to give a Testimony of how they
came into a personal relationship with their Savior? Are they saved?
Perhaps not?
came into a personal relationship with their Savior? Are they saved?
Perhaps not?
1 Peter 3:15 states: "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and
be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason
of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:"
be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason
of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:"
Nobody wishes to give a Testimony? Interesting.
redpill4vr
New member
hey i am new to this posting format and i am still figuring out how to find if a person is directly addressing you in a comment.(you might help me if you know... do we have any notifications about replies in the thread)
Now salvation is getting forgiveness for our past sins and accepting jesus as our saviour repenting and setting right our sins committed later and then enter eternal life (2 peter 1:10)It says one cannot enter with sin.
********************past sins***************************************
Ephesians 2:1-6
And although you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you formerly lived according to this world’s present path, according to the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the ruler of the spirit that is now energizing the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom all of us also formerly lived out our lives in the cravings of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath even as the rest…
4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of his great love with which he loved us, 5 even though we were dead in transgressions, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you are saved!— 6 and he raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,
colossians3:1-6
Therefore, if you have been raised with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2 Keep thinking about things above, not things on the earth, 3 for you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ (who is your life) appears, then you too will be revealed in glory with him. 5 So put to death whatever in your nature belongs to the earth: sexual immorality, impurity, shameful passion, evil desire, and greed which is idolatry. 6 Because of these things the wrath of God is coming on the sons of disobedience. 7 You also lived your lives in this way at one time, when you used to live among them. 8 But now, put off all such things as anger, rage, malice, slander, abusive language from your mouth.
Romans 3:25 25 God publicly displayed him at his death as the mercy seat accessible through faith. This was to demonstrate his righteousness, because God in his forbearance had passed over the sins previously committed.
2 Peter 1:9
9 But concerning the one who lacks such things—he is blind. That is to say, he is nearsighted, since he has forgotten about the cleansing of his past sins.
**********After accepting God expects us to obey his commandments.************************
1 John 2:3-4New English Translation (NET Bible)
Keeping God’s Commandments
3 Now by this we know that we have come to know God: if we keep his commandments. 4 The one who says “I have come to know God” and yet does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in such a person.
“Why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do the things which I say?” (Luke 6:46).
- Jn 14:15 If ye love Me, keep my commandments.
- Jn 14:21 He that hath My commandments, and keeps them, he it is that loves Me: and he that loves Me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest Myself to him.
- Jn 14:24 He that loves me not keeps not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not Mine, but the Father's which sent Me.
- Jn 16:27 For the Father Himself loves you, because ye have loved Me, and have believed that I came out from God.
- Jn 15:9-10 As the Father hath loved Me, so have I loved you: continue ye in My love. If ye keep My commandments, ye shall abide in My love; even as I have kept My Father's commandments, and abide in His love.
- Jn 13:34/15:12/17 A new commandment I give unto you, that ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. – speaking to the saved.
- Jn 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
1 John 5:3
In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome.
Revelation 14:11-12New English Translation (NET Bible)
And the smoke from their torture will go up forever and ever, and those who worship the beast and his image will have no rest day or night, along with anyone who receives the mark of his name.
12 This requires the steadfast endurance of the saints—those who obey God’s commandments and hold to their faith in Jesus.
Hebrews 5:9.:"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;"
Acts 10:35 - To be acceptable to Him, one must fear Him (respect authority) and work righteousness (obey authority).
1 Corinthians 7:19: Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God
James 1:21-25New English Translation (NET Bible)
21 So put away all filth and evil excess and humbly welcome the message implanted within you, which is able to save your souls. 22 But be sure you live out the message and do not merely listen to it and so deceive yourselves. 23 For if someone merely listens to the message and does not live it out, he is like someone who gazes at his own face in a mirror. 24 For he gazes at himself and then goes out and immediately forgets what sort of person he was. 25 But the one who peers into the perfect law of liberty and fixes his attention there, and does not become a forgetful listener but one who lives it out—he will be blessed in what he does.
*****Now what if we still do the things after we accept christ and got forgiveness from our past sins ********* .
1 john 1:5-6 Now this is the gospel message we have heard from him and announce to you: God is light, and in him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we say we have fellowship with him and yet keep on walking in the darkness, we are lying and not practicing the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as he himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say we do not bear the guilt of sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 But if we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous, forgiving us our sins and cleansing us from all unrighteousness.
2 Peter 1:4-11
4 Through these things he has bestowed on us his precious and most magnificent promises, so that by means of what was promised you may become partakers of the divine nature, after escaping the worldly corruption that is produced by evil desire. 5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith excellence, to excellence, knowledge; 6 to knowledge, self-control; to self-control, perseverance; to perseverance, godliness; 7 to godliness, brotherly affection; to brotherly affection, unselfish love. 8 For if these things are really yours and are continually increasing, they will keep you from becoming ineffective and unproductive in your pursuit of knowing our Lord Jesus Christ more intimately. 9 But concerning the one who lacks such things—he is blind. That is to say, he is nearsighted, since he has forgotten about the cleansing of his past sins. 10 Therefore, brothers and sisters, make every effort to be sure of your calling and election. For by doing this you will never stumble into sin. 11 For "THUS" an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, will be richly provided for you.
***********revelation 2,3 will give you a clear understanding of how lost people can come back. But i dont know how long God will wait or how many times will God ask us to repent. THATS FOR GOD TO DECIDE*************
look at revelation chapters 2,3 --- God is asking members of church to repent... revelation2:11,revelation 3:5 puts a condition on whose names will be in book of life (who will be spared from second death).
to the church of ephusus:
Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Rev 2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
to the angel of the church in Smyrna:
Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
rev 20:14
14 Then Death and Hell were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
to the angel of the church in Pergamos:
Rev 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
Rev 2:16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
Rev 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
to the angel of the church in Thyatira:
Rev 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
Rev 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
Rev 2:24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
to the angel of the church in Sardis:
Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
Rev 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
to the angel of the church in Philadelphia:
Rev 3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans:
Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou were cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spit thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
before saying that this is not for us
Rev 3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
but deliberate sinning leads to this
Hebrews 10:26-27New English Translation (NET Bible)
26 For if we deliberately keep on sinning after receiving the knowledge of the truth, no further sacrifice for sins is left for us, 27 but only a certain fearful expectation of judgment and a fury of fire that will consume God’s enemies.
i answered this with my understanding of "LOST" is it the same as you interpret or is it something else.
redpill4vr
New member
bro i saw the post yesterday night(in my time zone). i dont know how many times you posted but i did not see that..
hey i answered your post... if i did not want to answer then i would not have done it now.. and again is there any notification kind of a thing here.
Jamie Gigliotti
New member
How are we in Christ and not in the flesh?
"For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body you will live."
Are you saying God forces this?
He does it at our surrender to Him.
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Jamie Gigliotti
New member
Our submission to His work in us, doesn't take away from His work.There is no "next time you sin"......I am not under the law.
I know you people who are obsessed with sin don't understand that. What exactly do you think our Lord accomplished on the cross, anyway?????
Mortify (ye through the Spirit). Romans 8:13KJV That is the work of the Spirit in me. That is our being conformed into the image of the Son. We are His workmanship created IN CHRIST JESUS.....I won't take credit for what the Spirit of God is doing in me.
The point is to allow Him to do it. Surender. Don't be fooled into thinking you can do what you like and He'll make you do what He wants. He is not a puppeteer.
Shasta
Well-known member
The role of being the instrument of delivering the gospel to the world was offered to Israel but they refused it. However Paul said this did not thwart the plan of God who, knowing already that Israel would make this choice, factored it into His plan.
25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way all Israel will be saved (Romans 11:25-26).
Here we see how human choice does not thwart the overall plan of God. Even the apostasy of Israel did not prevent God from fulfilling His grand design of reaching all nations. When Israel rejected the gospel God simply bypassed them and went directly to the Gentiles. Though we know less of the travels f the Twelve, the historical evidence we do have suggests that they eventually went to the nations as well. Only James the brother of Jesus stayed in Jerusalem until the bitter end. Your (apparent) assumption that the Twelve never joined the mission to the nations is unfounded.
God's will is that the preaching of THE gospel (singular) must on until "the FULL number of Gentiles has come in." Only He knows when that quota will have been reached but once it is then shall the end come (Matthew 24:14) God's love demands that everyone who will respond will get the opportunity to hear the gospel. His prophecies to Israel will be fulfilled as well for one day they WILL yet spearhead the spread of the gospel to the nations
When Paul saw this expression of Divine "genius" he exclaimed:
Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God!
How unsearchable his judgments,
In the MAD view the Jewish mission failed in the first half of the First Century and the "Jewish Gospel" became obsolete. Their refusal to accept His offer invalidated all the scriptures about that purpose. In this worldview it does not look like God can providentially arrange events and coordinate human volition so that His purposes and prophecies are fulfilled. If this were the case His word would not be steadfast or reliable. God merely tries experiments out and when those ideas do not work he discards them and tries something else.
This conclusion is avoided altogether if there is and always was only one Gospel which was never dispensed with but has continued to save people through all the ages. In this scenario, the orders in the Great Commission are still en force and ALL of the NT is relevant to today's believers. In this paradigm you do not need to parse, analyze, and divide the message of the NT into micro-dispensations or to make the teachings of Jesus relevant only to Jewish believers of the First Century.
This view has the additional advantage of being the historical understanding of the first four generations of early Christians. In all the controversies that took place back then ideas central to MAD's thesis are never brought up...as if they did not exist.
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Shasta
Well-known member
As soon as a person is born again they are a member of the Body of Christ. The term "Body of Christ" was coined by Paul but it is a synonym for the term "Church" which means the "citizenry" or the "called out ones." In the first analogy we are members of a physical body in the last we are members of a body politic. Both are analogies.
What are you getting at?
heir
TOL Subscriber
Get your facts straight. Those who are members of the Body of Christ are not born again, but a new creature!
2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Shasta
Well-known member
Listen, water baptism is a part of the gospel of the kingdom that you quoted about in Mark 16. I initially quoted 1 Corinthians 1:17 KJV in hopes you would read it and have a light bulb moment realizing that what Paul preached could not be of the same gospel as Paul would not have been able to say that Christ sent him not to baptize. And then if that didn't wake you up, the fact that after he says, "Christ sent me not to baptize" he says, "but to preach the gospel"! :idea: It should be going off in your head like a blue light special at K-Mart!
Paul's converts WERE baptized (Acts 16:14-15, 30-33). When teaching believers on the Spiritual truths underling the ceremony of Baptism (Colossians 2:12, Romans 6:4) the assumption was that they all in fact had BEEN baptized. Since they were converted through Paul's ministry he knew they had that common experience to drawn from.
This did not mean that he Baptized people personally. Apparently he generally refrained from Baptize anyone. Still, while he USUALLY refrained he did not abstain from the practice altogether. In Corinth he baptized two people. He would not have Baptized these two if he did not believe in it. So common and accepted was the practice of baptism that he feels compelled to explain why he did not baptize any more.
"so that no one would say you were baptized in my name" (1 Corinthians 1:1.
The Corinthians had formed fan clubs around him, Peter and Apollos and Paul, in retrospect, was glad he was not a part of it since very few could brag "I was baptized by PAUL!"
It is apparent from these scriptures that Paul's converts were Baptized. This comports with what we observe in the book of Acts and with what was practiced in Church history as far back as the First Century. In the earliest daysall new converts to the faith were Baptized. immediately after they believed.
Paul never taught against the practice of Baptism nor did he discourage anyone from receiving it. Also, just because He himself did not generally baptize did not mean that one of his team did not do it for him. Paul was not alone in the ministry. His co-workers at various times included: Barnabas, Mark, Silas, Timothy, Luke and others.
As to Paul's statement that he was called to preach the gospel rather than Baptized, he is not saying he was commanded never to Baptize only that when he was called he was told to preach. However, he did not in any way undermine but allowed his ministry team to continue to Baptize, taking part in it himself occasionally. If a Church were to ask an evangelist with a very large ministry "Are you going to be doing the Baptizing?" Most evangelists nowadays would answer, "I am just going to do the preaching. You can see to the Baptizing." Their call is primarily to preach not necessarily to Baptize. This does not mean they do not believe in Baptism or do not expect that it will be done only that this was not their personal ministerial responsibility.
I have read that many proponents of MAD oppose the ceremonial practices that Christ clearly instituted such as Baptism and the Eucharist. This is the first post I have read on the subject. It is yet another example of how MAD doctrine undermines clear teachings and commands of Jesus Christ which Christians have always practiced and considered mandatory. It is another illustration of how far out of the mainstream MAD is.
Shasta
Well-known member
First off, unless you are born again and have the new life within you are still in the old life. No one who is not born again is a part of Christ at all. They are not branches connected to the Vine or members connected to the Head. It is His life within that makes us into a New Creation and that can only happen when we are born of the Spirit.
You are reading conceptual distinctions into words that are only being used as analogies. They were coined for their utility in illustrating spiritual principles. Whenever the Biblical writers come up with a metaphorical term they are not necessarily defining an entirely new concept.
Many of these terms are synonyms. Terms like "The Church," "the Body of Christ," "The temple," all refer to God's children (or His family). This is how it reads to the casual reader who lacks MAD presuppositions. Moreover, this is and has always been the common understanding of these terms. If you are positing yet another heterodox opinion then you should point out where the difference between these terms is expounded upon in the scriptures.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Analogies? You think Paul just "coined that phrase"? So you don't think we are hid with Christ in God? You don't think we are new creatures created IN HIM? Rather than called out and left out, we are now IN CHRIST. His Spirit dwells in us. He is our head and we are His body. Our hands working are HIS working through us. We're not just a bunch of people who gather together on occasion. I'm kinda surprised to hear the Body of Christ is just an analogy. Maybe I don't understand what you mean by analogy. :idunno:
glorydaz
Well-known member
No, that isn't true at all. My understanding of the Body of Christ existed years and years prior to my ever hearing the term MAD or knowing anything of what they believe.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Don't be fooled into thinking you know what I think. You're way off base....as this post proves.
Jamie Gigliotti
New member
"But that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end eternal life." Romans 6:22
How are we set free? By Grace through faith and trust in Christ. Our hearts turned to Him. Now are we going to be slaves to Him for all He has done? For His love and joy and peace brought by His Spirit inside of us? Does He then force us too? We must respond with our lives, a slave to God.
We can choose to ignore His great gift. We have free will.
Jamie Gigliotti
New member
We can choose to walk away from Him, our salvation. He is our salvation.