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turbosixx

turbosixx

New member
glorydaz said:
Look really really closely and tell me that does not say baptized by the Holy Spirit. BY ONE SPIRIT ARE WE ALL BAPTIZED....
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I see what your are saying don't get me wrong. In order to make your point you have to rearranging the words. In the chapters leading up to this Paul is clearly talking about water baptism. Why would he all of a sudden take water out?

If we look at the point when people are added, we can get a better understanding of what he is telling us. These people who were baptized, who added them? The apostles? Themselves? No, the Spirit. By one Spirit all those who were baptized were added by that one Spirit.
Acts 2:41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls.
 
heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
turbosixx said:
After his D,B &R, the gospel had his blood behind it. Those who believed were saved.
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The "d,b,r" is not the gospel of Christ, the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth although it's definitely included. You're missing the WHY of the cross. Furthermore, those in M, M, L and John were not saved, but "shall be".
 
Shasta

Shasta

Well-known member
turbosixx said:
The gospel in Mattew didn't have the blood of Christ behind it. That was looking forward. I will build my church. Will build indicates it hasn't been built. The church was purchased with his blood.
Acts 20:28....to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

After his D,B &R, the gospel had his blood behind it. Those who believed were saved.
Mark 16:15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.
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As I see it there the truth was not delivered as MAD has it - multiple packages (gospels). It was delivered line upon line, in a way, like a fax. His sacrifice which had been prophesied, was alluded to by John the Baptist who called Jesus the lamb, then by Jesus remarks saying He would die and be resurrected and then by the institution of the Lord's Supper. What the cross was all about could not be revealed before it happened. Otherwise, the Enemy would not have crucified Jesus (1 Corinthians 2:8)

The truths about Jesus as the unique Son of God, His miraculous power ministry and teaching, that salvation unto eternal life could be obtained through faith in Him were all revealed in the Gospels before the cross. These progressively became a part of the body of truths we now call the "gospel."

After the Resurrection Jesus came to the disciples and explained what He had done and how it fulfilled the Messianic prophecies (Luke 24:27,44) The same message they had received from Jesus in person Paul received later from Jesus by revelation.

You are certainly right that the Church could not be formed until it was bought by His blood and filled with His Spirit.
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
turbosixx said:
I see what your are saying don't get me wrong. In order to make your point you have to rearranging the words. In the chapters leading up to this Paul is clearly talking about water baptism. Why would he all of a sudden take water out?

If we look at the point when people are added, we can get a better understanding of what he is telling us. These people who were baptized, who added them? The apostles? Themselves? No, the Spirit. By one Spirit all those who were baptized were added by that one Spirit.
Acts 2:41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls.
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You said it didn't say BY the Spirit. It does. Now you call it rearranging. Have you ever taken an English grammar class? Ever? :chew:
 
turbosixx

turbosixx

New member
heir said:
They were preaching the gospel of the kingdom for three years yet not gospel of Christ as the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth!
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They said the kingdom was at hand. Was it? If so, where is it? Who is in it?

heir said:
And that church (the "My church") began with 12 and at Jerusalem (Luke 24:47 KJV, Acts 2), but that's not the church, the Body of Christ. And again, no gospel of Christ preached as the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth!
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You keep saying that no gospel of Christ unto salvation to one that believeth but this verse has all of that.

Mark 16:15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

Are the people who believe this gospel not saved?
 
turbosixx

turbosixx

New member
glorydaz said:
You said it didn't say BY the Spirit. It does. Now you call it rearranging. Have you ever taken an English grammar class? Ever? :chew:
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So you are saying he is not talking about water baptism here? Can you find a scripture to back that claim?
 
turbosixx

turbosixx

New member
Shasta said:
As I see it there the truth was not delivered as MAD has it - multiple packages (gospels). It was delivered line upon line, in a way, like a fax. His sacrifice which had been prophesied, was alluded to by John the Baptist who called Jesus the lamb, then by Jesus remarks saying He would die and be resurrected and then by the institution of the Lord's Supper. What the cross was all about could not be revealed before it happened. Otherwise, the Enemy would not have crucified Jesus (1 Corinthians 2:8)

The truths about Jesus as the unique Son of God, His miraculous power ministry and teaching, that salvation unto eternal life could be obtained through faith in Him were all revealed in the Gospels before the cross. These became part of that body of belief we call the "gospel." After the Resurrection Jesus came to the disciples and explained it to them (Luke 24:27, 44) The same message they received from Jesus in person Paul received from Jesus by revelation. You are certainly right that the Church could not be formed until it was bought with His blood and filled by His Spirit.
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Makes perfect sense.
 
heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
turbosixx said:
I would suggest you are missing the context. Paul is dealing with division not doctrine.
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Listen, water baptism is a part of the gospel of the kingdom that you quoted about in Mark 16. I initially quoted 1 Corinthians 1:17 KJV in hopes you would read it and have a light bulb moment realizing that what Paul preached could not be of the same gospel as Paul would not have been able to say that Christ sent him not to baptize. And then if that didn't wake you up, the fact that after he says, "Christ sent me not to baptize" he says, "but to preach the gospel"! :idea: It should be going off in your head like a blue light special at K-Mart! :patrol:
 
Shasta

Shasta

Well-known member
glorydaz said:
I can't help it if you don't understand what I'm saying. I do the best I can to make myself clear.
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Fair enough. I try too, sometimes perhaps too much which may be why I sometimes write a lot. I keep trying to clarify.

For what its worth I believe you sincerely love the word (no matter how mistaken I think you are about it) and I think you have a revelation of Christ living in and through us. If we were talking just about that I think you would find we are very much in agreement.

Despite what you might think I am not a legalist. I do have any confidence in my own ability to serve Christ or be pleasing to Him apart from His forgiveness and the help of the Holy Spirit. The Lord has left things in my life that continually remind me of my mortality and the essential instability of life in the flesh. This why I chose to post one of my favorite scriptures by my avatar.
 
turbosixx

turbosixx

New member
heir said:
Listen, water baptism is a part of the gospel of the kingdom that you quoted about in Mark 16. I initially quoted 1 Corinthians 1:17 KJV in hopes you would read it and have a light bulb moment realizing that what Paul preached could not be of the same gospel as Paul would not have been able to say that Christ sent him not to baptize. And then if that didn't wake you up, the fact that after he says, "Christ sent me not to baptize" he says, "but to preach the gospel"! :idea: It should be going off in your head like a blue light special at K-Mart! :patrol:
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I see the same thing in Mark 16 and 1 Cor. 1. They both were sent to preach the gospel and both saved those who believed and both baptized and both are based on Christ.

I have two questions. If Peter was preaching a kingdom gospel, is he to be accursed if you see it as different?

It appears Paul preached the kingdom?
Col. 1:13 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
Shasta said:
Fair enough. I try too, sometimes perhaps too much which may be why I sometimes write a lot. I keep trying to clarify.

For what its worth I believe you sincerely love the word (no matter how mistaken I think you are about it) and I think you have a revelation of Christ living in and through us. If we were talking just about that I think you would find we are very much in agreement.

Despite what you might think I am not a legalist. I do have any confidence in my own ability to serve Christ or be pleasing to Him apart from His forgiveness and the help of the Holy Spirit. The Lord has left things in my life that continually remind me of my mortality and the essential instability of life in the flesh. This why I chose to post one of my favorite scriptures by my avatar.
Click to expand...

Perhaps neither of us is explaining as well as we'd like. Could be we're looking from different angles. Could be I think you're saying something you aren't and you think I'm saying something I'm not. Won't it be great when we all see clearly? :)
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
heir said:
Listen, water baptism is a part of the gospel of the kingdom that you quoted about in Mark 16. I initially quoted 1 Corinthians 1:17 KJV in hopes you would read it and have a light bulb moment realizing that what Paul preached could not be of the same gospel as Paul would not have been able to say that Christ sent him not to baptize. And then if that didn't wake you up, the fact that after he says, "Christ sent me not to baptize" he says, "but to preach the gospel"! :idea: It should be going off in your head like a blue light special at K-Mart! :patrol:
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:thumb:
 
turbosixx

turbosixx

New member
glorydaz said:
Perhaps neither of us is explaining as well as we'd like. Could be we're looking from different angles. Could be I think you're saying something you aren't and you think I'm saying something I'm not. Won't it be great when we all see clearly? :)
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It is tough to get points across. Thanks for your patience.
 
patrick jane

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
heir said:
Listen, water baptism is a part of the gospel of the kingdom that you quoted about in Mark 16. I initially quoted 1 Corinthians 1:17 KJV in hopes you would read it and have a light bulb moment realizing that what Paul preached could not be of the same gospel as Paul would not have been able to say that Christ sent him not to baptize. And then if that didn't wake you up, the fact that after he says, "Christ sent me not to baptize" he says, "but to preach the gospel"! :idea: It should be going off in your head like a blue light special at K-Mart! :patrol:
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blue light spesh - :patrol:
 
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