"OSAS" people are not answering this question.

[redpill4vr]

you do seem obsessed with sin(s) and whether they are forgiven or not forgiven and who is accountable for an unforgiven sin ? HOGWASH - you mock the cross and Jesus Christ - HE DIED for your tiny little sins -

2 Corinthians 5:21 KJV -

learn to read, that's your best bet - :thumb:

exactly one should be worried about sin and its forgiveness only.... because that is why jesus came to this earth.. for you to not place importance on sin we commit in our life is "MAKING A MOCKERY OF CHRIST"

2 peter 3:15-17

15Also, regard the patience of our Lord as an opportunity for salvation, just as our dear brother Paul has written to you according to the wisdom given to him. 16 He speaks about these things in all his letters in which there are some matters that are hard to understand. The untaught and unstable twist them to their own destruction, as they also do with the rest of the Scriptures.

17Therefore, dear friends, since you know this in advance, be on your guard, so that you are not led away by the error of lawless people and fall from your own stability.

 

[redpill4vr]

hey redpill - OSAS is the truth but you don't believe so you are under OT Law, you may go to hell. so do what you think is the answer REPENT and turn back to the Father in heaven - REPENT

hey...... yes one should repent when ever they commit a sin (even after accepting jesus as saviour).......... that is what i am saying......if my point is true then OSAS should be false.:thumb:

 

[HisServant]

hmm.......... we always welcome back ( no arguments) ... one has to come back in confession and repentance..... thats what the son did.(luke 15:21 - The son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’)


the son literally came back to father in repentance....my question is what happens if one does not come back to father in repentance.

But he never did that in the beginning did he?

 

[redpill4vr]

But he never did that in the beginning did he?

so .... then how do you intend to interpret this passage since you brought this parable into discussion.

but even that doesnt change the fact that one has to come back to Father.

 

[jamie]

OSAS? Hardly...

Jesus said, "So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth." (Revelation 3:16 NKJV)

We are saved by grace, so is it possible to fall from grace?

Paul said, "You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law, you have fallen from grace." (Galatians 5:4 NKJV)

We must work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. It has not been worked out for us.

 

[Jamie Gigliotti]

hmm.......... we always welcome back ( no arguments) ... one has to come back in confession and repentance..... thats what the son did.(luke 15:21 - The son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’)


the son literally came back to father in repentance....my question is what happens if one does not come back to father in repentance.

"Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the Good news failed to enter because of disobedience." Hebrews 4:6

"And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him" Hebrews 5:9

"For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgement and and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries." Hebrews 10: 26-27

"Work out your salvation in fear and trembling." Phiilipians 2:12

The truth is there, but many choose to ignore it. They like the verses that make them feel good. Why not connect with Jesus in prayer, humble worship and surrender and let His presence make you feel better than you ever imagined possible?

 

[patrick jane]

hey...... yes one should repent when ever they commit a sin (even after accepting jesus as saviour).......... that is what i am saying......if my point is true then OSAS should be false.:thumb:

nope. repentance is a one time thing unless you stop believing altogether; then repent again. The Spirit confesses. why would you confess to a man or to God when God already knows ?

stop mocking the cross and Jesus Christ -

 

[Shasta]

It doesn't imply that we should go back to the father... what it says is that we are ALWAYS welcome back and what we did while we were away is not counted against us.

The parable of the prodigal son does not at all support OSAS.

1. In the beginning of the story the son was IN the house of the father, in fellowship with him, eating and working with him in the field.

2. He betrayed his relationship to his father by demanding money that should have been his only at his father's death. Essentially he was acting as if his father was already dead. He might just as well have said "Father you are dead to me."

3. After this supreme insult he rebelled against the will if his father by going out and living a life of immorality and excess, a life contrary to his father's values.

4. It was only when he was so humbled that it no longer mattered to him whether he was a slave or a son that he became willing to return. The lesson of the swine pen brought him to repentance which is equivalent to "coming to himself."

5. Note that through this whole period of time the father did not send out men to forcibly retrieve him as you suggest. His own change of mind turned him towards home and that was the result of his seeing the state he had come to because of his egregious arrogance.

6. It is true that the Father was there to welcome him WHEN he had come to that state of readiness.

7. The father's remark on seeing him was

"For this son of mine was dead and is alive again! He was lost and is found!' " (Luke 54:24)

8. The father said that during the time when the prodigal was engaging in a lifestyle of sin he was dead. In Jewish terms his relationship to the Father and the family was severed and he was cut off as much so as if he were literally dead. Spiritually speaking his rebellion cut him off from the Source of life rendering him dead.

If anyone does not remain (abide, continue remain) in Me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers.

"Withers" means the life-giving sap slowly dries up until there is none left. At this point the branches (which used to be united to the vine) are gathered up, thrown into the fire, and burned (John 15:6).

For the period of time we (continuously) abide/remain/continue in sin the new life no longer flows.

9. An unsaved person, not under the guidance and care of the Shepherd is sometimes compared to a LOST sheep. In this parable the prodigal who had first lived in the father's presence left home and became lost but then was found again.

While I am sure you would love to import Calvinist doctrines into the parable it does not express those doctrines if it is read as it was written.

As for your statement that "it does not imply that we should go back to the father" I think that is absurd. That is exactly what it is saying to every prodigal who has ever heard it. It invites them to reflect on the fruits of living by and for themselves and urges them to repent and turn to the Father. It certainly does not urge them to continue in a life of sin until God coverts them irresistibly.

 

[musterion]

hey...... yes one should repent when ever they commit a sin (even after accepting jesus as saviour).......... that is what i am saying......if my point is true then OSAS should be false.:thumb:

If osas is false, then if one who has salvation loses it, there's no chance of his being resaved. True?

 

[HisServant]

so .... then how do you intend to interpret this passage since you brought this parable into discussion.

but even that doesnt change the fact that one has to come back to Father.

One does not have to come back to the father... once you are an adopted son you will always be.

 

[heir]

I met a pastor who preached OSAS. He said after a person accepts christ as saviour then his entry to heaven (eternal life) is secured. I asked what if he commits adultery and not repent and not get forgiveness from God. He still said that he would go but God would discipline him (he might even kill him). So i put forth a question in the following way and he could not answer it. He said go and read John's Gospel and you will understand.

Those who are saved by trusting the Lord believing the gospel of our salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV) have already been made to sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus (Ephesians 2:5-6 KJV), have already been forgiven all trespasses (Colossians 2:13 KJV) and are sealed (Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV, Ephesians 4:32 KJV).

and he left.. can anyone answer this question.." who will be held accountable for the unforgiven sin even when the believer has not repented and asked for forgiveness".

ps. i believe that OSAS is false... dont say a true believer will never sin......

To answer your question: Whether you believe or not that the believer's salvation is secure does not change the fact that it is.
There are no sins left to forgive that God has not already forgiven.
How many of your sins did Christ not die for?

 

[Buzzword]

P: "You are not a man of God or else you would have simply believed instead of asking these many questions."

Major red flag there.
That any religious leader would condemn someone for asking questions, especially if those questions backed them into a logical, rhetorical, or theological corner, demonstrates a total ineptitude for reaching people, and thus unfitness for spiritual leadership.

can anyone answer this question.." who will be held accountable for the unforgiven sin even when the believer has not repented and asked for forgiveness".

Firstly, this is an inadequate question.
1) Why do you believe that someone must be held accountable, especially after it's too late for them to repent?
2a) Why do you worry about the spiritual state of others, and whether or not God will deal justly with THEM?
2b) Why not word this question to actually deal with something over which YOU have control: YOURSELF?

"Who will be held accountable for my unforgiven sin if I do not ask forgiveness and repent?"
(because forgiveness has to happen before we have any hope of changing direction in the long term)

And my answer to that question, while it is still slightly inadequate yet more personal, would be:
Ask for forgiveness and you don't have to worry about it.


The foundational problem of OSAS theology, like many flawed doctrines, is that it demonstrates a skewed set of priorities.

It seems to have originally been an offshoot of TULIP Calvinism, taking the idea of the "elect" (also a flawed doctrine) out of God's hands and putting it into the hands of the individual believer.
In other words, and this is rarely if ever stated aloud in OSAS congregations, instead of God choosing you from everlasting to everlasting, you choose God once and are thus made elect from that moment unto eternity.
And thus one is saved eternally, regardless of any future choices made in life.

Whether OSAS or TULIP, there is an inherent flaw in its prioritizing of the end of the journey (either the bribe or the punishment) above our current place upon it.
If one is hoping to be among the elect, or deciding to make oneself among the elect by a profession of faith, one is missing the point.

God does not call us into Himself to give us an invitation to the Afterlife Afterparty.
That is incidental compared to the calling to a more abundant life NOW.

We have the opportunity to grow and mature and literally become a better kind of person through the Spirit's presence in our lives.
Too much dogma focuses on the Spirit's presence (or lack thereof) in our DEATHS, and misses out on what He can do in us NOW.


So basically, stop bandying about with OSAS or the elect or anything else that keeps us focused on the end of the road instead of where we are now.
NonChristians have heard more and enough about Heaven and Hell, have seen too little positive change resulting from that fixation, and generally aren't converted by doctrine or dogma or our squabbles over either.

 

[patrick jane]

if you can just answer the question i will be believing "the truth" as you say. i have been accused of this and if you want to help me just answer the question... or else bye bye.....because OSAS theory is not giving me an answer to this question..

so, your question is who takes ownership of an unforgiven sin ? is that your question ? ask the one main question you have, not a conversation with an unknown pastor. the answers are in scripture and we can find them for you. just ask your questions on at a time if possible - :thumb:

what is THIS QUESTION ?

 

[patrick jane]

or, just take nobody's advice, accept no answers, especially the right answers, and just go through life in a fog of false doctrine and unbelief -

 

[heir]

We are saved by grace, so is it possible to fall from grace?

Paul said, "You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law, you have fallen from grace." (Galatians 5:4 NKJV)

We must work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. It has not been worked out for us.

LOL

Those who are fallen from grace are those who places themselves back under the law after being bewitched by religious drones. Their salvation is not effected.


Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

...


Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

...


Galatians 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

Galatians 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

Galatians 4:11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Galatians 4:12 Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as ye are: ye have not injured me at all.

Galatians 4:13 Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first.

Galatians 4:14 And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

Galatians 4:15 Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me.

Galatians 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

Galatians 4:17 They zealously affect you, but not well; yea, they would exclude you, that ye might affect them.

Galatians 4:18 But it is good to be zealously affected always in a good thing, and not only when I am present with you.

Galatians 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,

Galatians 4:20 I desire to be present with you now, and to change my voice; for I stand in doubt of you.

Galatians 4:21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

...


Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Galatians 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

Galatians 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

I'm so bored with OSAS debates:

The Bible has some people that look forward to salvation with stern warnings about falling away. Anti OSAS people focus on these people, claiming that they are already saved, and lost it.

The Bible has some people that look back to salvation. Anti OSAS people generally ignore these people, and ignore Paul's letters, where they are found.

 

[redpill4vr]

or, just take nobody's advice, accept no answers, especially the right answers, and just go through life in a fog of false doctrine and unbelief -

ha ha ha..... oh patrick the same can be said of you too........

2 peter 1:8-11

1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

2 peter 3:15-16
15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

cheers mate

 

[heir]

I'm so bored with OSAS debates:

The Bible has some people that look forward to salvation with stern warnings about falling away. Anti OSAS people focus on these people, claiming that they are already saved, and lost it.

The Bible has some people that look back to salvation. Anti OSAS people generally ignore these people, and ignore Paul's letters, where they are found.

Yep! Anti-OSAS believe on some level that they have to do or have done something to be saved and to stay saved as they're always reading someone else's mail and applying it to themselves and others today (which no one should do), while ignoring that which is written directly to us by Paul.

 

[redpill4vr]

hmm

 

[heir]

2 peter 1:8-11

1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

2 peter 3:15-16
15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

LOL

Throwing Peter at me, isn't going to work. He was neither a member of the Body of Christ, nor speaking TO us.

Can you go back and address my post to you?