Original Sin and the Calvinists

[God's Truth]

Why you think Christ lived and died and rose again?

To reconcile us to him.

The lake of fire was made for Satan and the demons.

The lake of fire will be used for those who reject Jesus.

Matthew 25:41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

 

[beloved57]

To reconcile us to him.

The lake of fire was made for Satan and the demons.

The lake of fire will be used for those who reject Jesus.

Matthew 25:41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

You teach that sinners Christ died for will end up eternally seperated from Him, Lost !

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Obeying Jesus has everything to do with obeying.

See Acts 5:32, and so many others that it would make your head spin.

The Greek word translated "obey" in some translations also means to hearken to something or believe something. And that is the meaning at Acts 5:32:

"And we are witnesses of these accounts, and so is The Spirit of Holiness, whom God gives to those who believe in him." (Acts 5:32; Aramaic Bible in Plain English).​

That is the correct translation because Paul says that the Holy Spirit is received by faith:

"This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?" (Gal.3:2).​

Of course you argue that no one receives the Spirit by faith but instead by obeying!

I addressed Acts 5:32 now it is your turn to address Galatians 3:2.

Then show me in the gospel where it says that we must obey Him!

 

[God's Truth]

You teach that sinners Christ died for will end up eternally seperated from Him, Lost !

That is why we are warned not to reject him.

Hebrews 12:25 See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven?

 

[God's Truth]

The Greek word translated "obey" in some translations also means to hearken to something or believe something. And that is the meaning at Acts 5:32:

"And we are witnesses of these accounts, and so is The Spirit of Holiness, whom God gives to those who believe in him." (Acts 5:32; Aramaic Bible in Plain English).​

Okay, you can choose any tranlsation you want to about that word, but you still have to address the WHAT we are to believe about Jesus. Just believe in Jesus, of course, but answer what it is we are to believe.

Keep in mind the whole time you are trying to answer that question that faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone.

That is what the apostle to the Lamb says. So you think that apostle to the Lamb is going against a gospel of the Lord's? Tell me then how can you say faith alone is saving faith when James says it is dead?

That is the correct translation because Paul says that the Holy Spirit is received by faith:

"This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?" (Gal.3:2).​

Are you kidding? Do you really think that Paul is rebuking the Galatians for obeying Jesus too much?

Paul is rebuking the Galatians for doing the ceremonial works.

That scripture to the Galatians proves that not of works but of faith is about getting cleaned by Jesus instead of by ceremonial works.

I am only trying to help you know God better.

Of course you argue that no one receives the Spirit by faith but instead by obeying!

That is not true what you say about me. We have to obey and believe.

I addressed Acts 5:32 now it is your turn to address Galatians 3:2.

Then show me in the gospel where it says that we must obey Him!

I will show you many scriptures that say we are to obey.

Hebrews 5:9 Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And in this way he was perfected and became the cause of eternal life to all those who obey him.

Philippians 2:12
Therefore, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now even more in my absence, continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling.

1 Peter 1:2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father and set apart by the Spirit for obedience and for sprinkling with the blood of Jesus Christ. May grace and peace be multiplied to you.

Romans 6:16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?


Romans 15:18 I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in leading the Gentiles to obey God by what I have said and done—

Romans 16:26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all nations might believe and obey him—

1 John 1:6 If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth.


There are many more scriptures.

Do you accept the things Jesus said when he walked the earth?

 

[beloved57]

That is why we are warned not to reject him.

Hebrews 12:25 See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven?

You deny Christ!

 

[God's Truth]

You deny Christ!

You are the robot of your god, and he gave you to rely on insults and the inability to defend your false doctrines.

Why won't you address that scripture? Wouldn't you give it all up for God's Truth?

 

[beloved57]

You are the robot of your god, and he gave you to rely on insults and the inability to defend your false doctrines.

Why won't you address that scripture? Wouldn't you give it all up for God's Truth?

All you do is deny Christ like a robot!

 

[God's Truth]

All you do is deny Christ like a robot!

I do no such thing.

What is the matter? You don't like it that your god programs you?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Tell me then how can you say faith alone is saving faith when James says it is dead?

As far as other men can see, if a Christian does not have good works to go along with his faith then that faith is a dead faith because it does not result in good works. But earlier in the same epistle james tells us exactly how a person is born of God:

"Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures" (Jas.1:18).​

Peter says the same thing:

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).​

You have been given many chances to prove that the gospel demands that in order to be saved one must obey but so far you have come up empty!

Of course you are not born again or else you would actually believe what Peter wrote there!

Do you really think that Paul is rebuking the Galatians for obeying Jesus too much?

We were discussing how a person receives the Holy Spirit and you said that it is received by obedience. I say that it is by faith and that is exactly what Paul says:

"This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?" (Gal.3:2).​

Show us that you really believe what is written in the Bible and tell us how the Spirit is received.

By obedience or by faith?

 

[Epoisses]

Someone is born again by believing in the new covenant promise of righteousness by faith

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. Gal. 3:28,29

Those like Jerry are excluded by their own admission.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Someone is born again by believing in the new covenant promise of righteousness by faith

Is there nothing in the Scriptures which you will actually believe?

A person is born again by the gospel and not by believing in the New Covenant promised to the house of Israel and to the house of Judah!

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).​

Paul speaks of the gospel at 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 and he says nothing about the new Covenant promised to Israel.

If you really think that you are born again by believing the New Covenant mentioned at Jeremiah 31:31 then you are not born again and remain in your sins!

 

[Epoisses]

Is there nothing in the Scriptures which you will actually believe?

A person is born again by the gospel and not by believing in the New Covenant promised to the house of Israel and to the house of Judah!

The new covenant promise to the spiritual houses of Israel and Judah. Believing Jews likely falling into the house of Judah and believing Gentiles falling into the house of Israel.

Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God. Romans 9:24-26

Hosea chap. 1 and 2 referencing the fallen house of Israel that would be raised up in faith at a future time.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The new covenant promise to the spiritual houses of Israel and Judah. Believing Jews likely falling into the house of Judah and believing Gentiles falling into the house of Israel.

Let us look at this passage where we see the New Covenant promised to the house of Israel and the house of Judah:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more" (Jer.31:31-34).​

The "fathers" of the ones who will receive the New Covenant were the physical descendants of Abraham, Issac and Jacob, the ones who broke the covenant. And since the fathers are the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob then that means that the offspring of those fathers will also be the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

So in the future all of the house of Israel and all of the house of Judah which will be made up of the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and they will all, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, will have their sins forgiven and be saved.

You are so confused that you think that the house of Israel is referring to Gentiles despite the fact that the fathers of those of the house of Israel are the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob!

Your spiritual I.Q. is practically ZERO!

 

[Right Divider]

The new covenant promise to the spiritual houses of Israel and Judah. Believing Jews likely falling into the house of Judah and believing Gentiles falling into the house of Israel.

Ah... changing the Bible meet your need for it to say what it does not say.

The house of Israel is TEN TRIBES. It has nothing to do with Gentiles.

As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God. Romans 9:25,26

Romans 9-11 is about Israel and their restoration in the future.

Rom 11:11-12 (AKJV/PCE)​

(11:11) I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but [rather] through their fall salvation [is come] unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. (11:12) Now if the fall of them [be] the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? ​

So simple and yet so many, like you, don't believe it.

 

[Epoisses]

Let us look at this passage where we see the New Covenant promised to the house of Israel and the house of Judah:

"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more" (Jer.31:31-34).​

The "fathers" of the ones who will receive the New Covenant were the physical descendants of Abraham, Issac and Jacob, the ones who broke the covenant. And since the fathers are the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob then that means that the offspring of those fathers will also be the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

So in the future all of the house of Israel and all of the house of Judah which will be made up of the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and they will all, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, will have their sins forgiven and be saved.

You are so confused that you think that the house of Israel is referring to Gentiles despite the fact that the fathers of those of the house of Israel are the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob!

Your spiritual I.Q. is practically ZERO!

Believing Jews fall into the house of Judah and believing Gentiles fall into the house of Israel. Judah was historically higher than the house of Israel indicating that converted Jews are higher than converted Gentiles. The church was started by ethnic and converted Jews.

 

[Right Divider]

Believing Jews fall into the house of Judah and believing Gentiles fall into the house of Israel. Judah was historically higher than the house of Israel indicating that converted Jews are higher than converted Gentiles. The church was started by ethnic and converted Jews.

Where did you get this baloney?

 

[Epoisses]

Where did you get this baloney?

From the dispy truck that got T-boned by a semi.

 

[Right Divider]

From the dispy truck that got T-boned by a semi.

So you just invented it yourself.

 

[Epoisses]

So you just invented it yourself.

I just quoted Paul who quoted Hosea didn't I. Can't you read?