Original Sin, and its Essence

[Nick M]

Only sinners die.
Innocents do not die as innocents do not have the necessary mens rea to be guilty for sin and under its sway.

Actually no.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.

 

[JudgeRightly]

My article aimed to spark discussion about a compelling pattern: the concept of original sin appears across diverse cultures, from ancient Greece and Mesopotamia to Aboriginal Australia. This widespread theme suggests a universal human recognition of a primordial rupture between divine and human realms—one that explains our current state of suffering and mortality. The persistence of this narrative across civilizations points to a fundamental truth about human nature: our deep-seated sense of moral imperfection and yearning for redemption.

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[Ps82]

Actually no.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.

I think you made a great point.

I will add: Yes, Jesus through his death and resurrection has over come sin and death. He now provides the WAY of our following him. So one day I asked: If Jesus has overcome sin and death then why are we human's still suffering? He gave me an answer.

He said, "I waited on you!"
"What???," I said.
Then he opened scripture for me. There is a reason we still suffer. A reason we still experience death. A reason we still commit sins.

When God created us he had a purpose. He wanted to grow a family that would love and follow him of our own free will. He had a plan called salvation all ready for our sake if we failed.

• Birth was made a process to occur over time
• Death was a process to occur over time

Because both were made a process this allowed for male and female to fulfill God's first command for mankind. Produce and multiply a family.

Yes, Jesus has overcome sin and death by his miracle on the cross and he has given us a gift of his Holy Spirit. Him in us followers is the way we follow him into an eternal kingdom. But the processes still go on ... in fact we are told this:

I Corinthians 15:26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

We still suffer from the original sin of our parents, Adam/Woman, because God has waited on us to be born. If he had ended birthing and dying and brought in the kingdom, when Jesus arose from the dead, then you and I would have never been born having a chance to partake of his perfect eternal kingdom.

In this world we will have troubles ... and still suffer from the consequences of the original sin ... actually we suffer due to the curse upon the ground which was done by God FOR OUR SAKE. Through that curse and our waiting we will one day shed this earthly body and begiven a new one where we as individuals will live in a perfect world in a relationship with our Lord and Father.

I Corinthians 15:54-55 When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory." "O death where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?"

Ephesians 1:7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace.!

Read I Tim. 6:14-16 to see who introduces the saints to the LORD Father!!! What an exciting day that will be.

 

[Nick M]

A reason we still experience death. A reason we still commit sins.

Study the scripture. I am going to quote Paul again from the same letter. The summary is this body is dead because of sin. It will go to the grave. The law proves the body is in sin. But we are not. Our spirit is alive, but the body is dead. Then other letters.

18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

And to the church in Ephesus, or whatever it is called;

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

And the purchased possession, which we cannot trace out from the Hebrew prophets (they never stated anyone will die and go to heave)

13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Note, we go to the clouds with a transformed body. No longer dead from sin.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

Again, a mystery because it is not in prophecy. But it is similar to the prophet Ezekiel who said Israel will be raised up with new bodies. So how is it a mystery? Because Israel will be resurrected and placed in their land. They also will be born from above. But that is a partial tangent. This body is dead and corrupted. It will go to the grave, then he will transform it and take us with him before he purges Israel.

 

[Halster]

Original Sin never really made sense to me as a literal punishment passed down to everyone. It feels more like a way to explain why humans are flawed and tend to mess up. I think the idea developed over time, especially with Augustine’s influence, and the Catholic Church kind of ran with it. I don't think it was just made up out of nowhere, but it definitely evolved with theology. Whether you take it as symbolic or historical probably depends on how you read the Bible overall.

 

[Nick M]

Original Sin never really made sense to me as a literal punishment passed down to everyone.

Why do you ignore this?

18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.

I never read anything from Augustine or anything like it. This is what the Bible says.

 

[ttruscott]

18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.

Having Adam's guilt imputed to us does not make an innocent person (innocent of any choice to sin) to become a sinner any more than having Christ's righteousness imputed to us makes us fully righteous with no need for any sanctification!

The only people born into Adam to have his guilt imputed to them were already sinners by their own free will decision to sin against GOD when they were sown, not created, by conception into mankind, Matt 13:36-39. His guilt and death imputed to them do not create them or make them to be sinners (GOD cannot create evil!) but show them to be already sinners and bringing all elect sinners into one judgement, it allows Christ to die but once for all elect sinners.

Imputation of guilt or righteousness changes only how GOD sees and treat us, imputation does not change our condition from innocent to evil nor evil to innocent or fully sanctified...