On the omniscience of God

[Idolater]

Again, the context, the very reason I quoted the ENTIRE chapter, not just a small portion of it, is Israel's rebellion against God. Go read the whole chapter again. It's in the spoiler.

The interlocutor of Romans 9 is a Jew who is asking why God has cut them off when they were promised a Kingdom. Hence the "pursuing righteousness through faith" vs "pursuing righteousness through works of the law."

I always thought it meant that their kingdom was freely available to them, but it wasn't attained through works of the Old Law because it's the New Covenant, and plus they had to share. With Gentiles. That made them jealous, especially "certain men which came down from Judaea". Not just jealous of sharing with the Gentiles, but also jealous for the Old Law, the Old Covenant, the Old Testament. They didn't want to share their kingdom with the Gentiles, and they didn't want to violate Torah. God hardened their hearts like He hardened pharaoh's, is an exact analogy or parallel for Paul, comparing these jealous men from Judea toward the Gentiles in the Church, with Pharaoh toward Moses. Paul says he's basically Moses in this story, saying to his own countrymen, "Let my people (the Gentiles) go [(into Christ's kingdom)]." But they the circumcision were jealous.

 

[Clete]

Ah, I begin to see what you mean and it makes sense. Perhaps it is rather not will, but the execution of His will would be the better tack. Thank you for the thoughts. Your dialogue helps and appreciate it.

Right and so theologians have proffered and idea over the difference, but I begin to catch your meaning

Yes, but even if inadvertently, you are making very good points for my mind's considerations. I think it correct, we aren't talking about 'will' but the will as it interacts. That is different. I'd intimate you could write a book that would sell, it is enlightening and all theologians would profit from the need (just saying it is a game-changer if done well).

Appreciate that. I don't necessarily agree, we all belong to Him, but appreciate your thoughts and points. I'm not altogether against your thought but yet see that we all are His "The earth is the Lord's and all therein." Granted it intimates something you don't espouse. I too believe as you every action of God is for love's sake.

Realize I don't jump to the same conclusion you do. Literally this: I've a filter after 50 years with God that says "Will not the Lord do right?" I don't wrestle (sloppy) as I once did with "Why women and babies" as our nemesis Sword of Truth does. I rather implicitly know that God is good. It may 'look' like God does something wrong in intimation but I know better (again, perhaps have grown sloppy with the incredible giving away of doubt). I think in an overarching way, that umbrella has us both on the same page, however sloppily I arrived there.



I think I do. I picked up on it from your first sentence and exactly what I was looking for. Thank you!

Not much to say in response here except that I can't imagine anyone wanting to read a book written by me. I wouldn't know what to write about that better men haven't already written.

 

[Bladerunner]

I always thought it meant that their kingdom was freely available to them, but it wasn't attained through works of the Old Law because it's the New Covenant, and plus they had to share. With Gentiles. That made them jealous, especially "certain men which came down from Judaea". Not just jealous of sharing with the Gentiles, but also jealous for the Old Law, the Old Covenant, the Old Testament. They didn't want to share their kingdom with the Gentiles, and they didn't want to violate Torah. God hardened their hearts like He hardened pharaoh's, is an exact analogy or parallel for Paul, comparing these jealous men from Judea toward the Gentiles in the Church, with Pharaoh toward Moses. Paul says he's basically Moses in this story, saying to his own countrymen, "Let my people (the Gentiles) go [(into Christ's kingdom)]." But they the circumcision were jealous.

It is obvious the word of GOD is on several planes of understanding. If one reads Chapter 9,10 and 11 from a Jewish point of view, you will find that hidden within the pages are the past (chapt 9), present (chapt 10) and the future (chapt 11) for Israel.