On Rape (the original statement)

[bybee]

Im seeing a lot of piling on me, but no one responding to my concerns about having any personal accountability for ones own negligence and putting ones self in harms way deliberately.

We can pretend that ones own negligence or carelessness doesnt contribute to a great many things, but i know good and well anyone adult and alive knows better.

A hero or heroine might put him/herself deliberately in harms way for the good of others.
An innocent, a vulnerable, a stupid person may find him/herself in harms way before realizing what has happened.
The person presented with provocation or temptation in the presence of irresponsibility of another person is being tried and weighed in the balance. Will he/she do the right thing? Or will he/she pleasure himself at the cost of the other person?

 

[ok doser]

First - the parent acted negligently and could get in trouble for putting a child at risk.

Second - the bank staff is responsible for putting the bank and its money at risk. They could/should be fired for negligence.

Third - Mary is responsible for putting herself in a situation in which she has little control and for acting in a way that might provoke men. But I don't know where anyone is supposed to go from there.

The 3 situations aren't quite the same though.
In 1, a child is involved who can't defend themselves and the person was a known pedophile. Children need guardians because they can't sufficiently understand all the dangers and protect themselves.

right - that's why i focused on the father instead of the children

In 2, the responsibility and punishment would be coming from the employer, not the legal system. Also, it's not unreasonable to think that people will take money if they have the opportunity.

from the employer and from prospective employers

In 3, is the assumption that men will rape any drunk girl they meet (like the assumption is made on theft in 2)?

well, yeah

that's basically what they're teaching the kids here now

What's the proposal for Mary?

to begin with?

an acknowledgment that her actions - the choices she made - were directly responsible for the situation in which she found herself - vulnerable and at risk

What practical difference does it make if the women was drunk at a frat party and got raped or if she got jumped while walking home from work and got raped?

i'd have to know what her behavior was at the frat party - i don't refer to a frat party in my scenario

 

[Angel4Truth]

But what does that personal accountability of the women who got drunk and stripped at a frat party mean to you? Should she get in trouble?

No. Shes already suffered trouble, just like the person who left their car running suffers their loss because of their negligence.

Does the rapist get a lesser punishment because he was provoked and tempted? What happens?

In this scenerio? Depends on how it occurred- not really sure how to define what i mean (a couple possible scenerios) without pushing the line on whats acceptable to post.

If one thing i am thinking of happened (like he did something while she was in his lap all at once while she had been allowing him to have his hands on her already), yes he should get a lessor punishment- if any -also because he was drunk (if a woman is deemed to not be able to consent because of not being responsible for what she does when drunk, thats a 2 way street - he could have believed her allowing all that and sitting there was a yes)

But if he later forced her - like grabbed her, shes fighting and saying no the whole time and then does it, he should get full punishment.

Either doesn't remove at all her negligence and poor judgment in placing herself in the situation willfully and knowing the condition of the men.

I mean if a man whose drunk date consents then changes her mind, according to laws now, it doesnt change his poor judgment for having sex with her when she is incapeable (because of drunkeness) of actually consenting.

Twisted isnt it.

 

[Angel4Truth]

I gotta run for a bit, be back later.

 

[Tambora]

Let change the scene.

On one side of you is a woman stripping.
On the other side of you is a man with a grip on the back of your neck saying, "Don't even think about raping her".

You are being enticed by both.
By one, to rape.
By the other, not to rape.

Should either of those on your sides share any responsibility for what you yourself decide to do (to rape or not to rape)?
Can it be said that either of them shared in the responsibility of your own response?
No.
The sole responsibility of how you chose to respond is on you, not either of them.
No matter what the outside influence is, your decision of how to respond is only on you.

 

[Tambora]

I'm gonna ask LoneStar if he has time to weigh in on this when he gets home.
Get another man's perspective.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Let change the scene.

On one side of you is a woman stripping.
On the other side of you is a man with a grip on the back of your neck saying, "Don't even think about raping her".

You are being enticed by both.
By one, to rape.
By the other, not to rape.

Should either of those on your sides share any responsibility for what you yourself decide to do (to rape or not to rape)?
Can it be said that either of them shared in the responsibility of your own response?
No.
The sole responsibility of how you chose to respond is on you, not either of them.
No matter what the outside influence is, your decision of how to respond is only on you.

No one is saying that one who actually rapes, isnt guilty of rape anymore ( just because we believe that sometimes in some cases- a persons poor judgement or negligence is also its own issue.)

One is not negating the other, and that keeps being missed.

 

[annabenedetti]

Meanwhile, sod slips out the door while no one's looking.

I have your number, sod. You play big boy armchair warrior here, troll and throw crap here to your heart's content. Blame the victims of rape for their rapes, and call murder victims cowards. And yet, in a class/on a campus that's predominantly female, you don't speak up because your opinions would be "unpopular."

You weasel.

 

[intojoy]

Meanwhile, sod slips out the door while no one's looking.

I have your number, sod. You play big boy armchair warrior here, troll and throw crap here to your heart's content. Blame the victims of rape for their rapes, and call murder victims cowards. And yet, in a class/on a campus that's predominantly female, you don't speak up because your opinions would be "unpopular."

You weasel.

Delicious

 

[intojoy]

Most strippers are tough chicks. And many have guys lined up to jump on them I mean jump on their defense.

 

[LoneStar]

I'm gonna ask LoneStar if he has time to weigh in on this when he gets home.
Get another man's perspective.

I will start by saying I was a horn dog and chased every pretty skirt there was in my younger days. I am no self righteous saint. I can conceive of no circumstance where the woman would share any culpability if I decided to rape her.

 

[bybee]

I will start by saying I was a horn dog and chased every pretty skirt there was in my younger days. I am no self righteous saint. I can conceive of no circumstance where the woman would share any culpability if I decided to rape her.

Many of us, in our younger days, had no idea how volatile the sex drive is in young men. We were naive!

 

[LoneStar]

Many of us, in our younger days, had no idea how volatile the sex drive is in young men. We were naive!

It didn't take much to get me in the mood. It still doesn't.

 

[alwight]

Many of us, in our younger days, had no idea how volatile the sex drive is in young men. We were naive!

Where is Ask Mister Religion to preach once more about the sin of lust?

 

[bybee]

Where is Ask Mister Religion to preach once more about the sin of lust?

He makes good sense to me.

 

[alwight]

He makes good sense to me.

And, no doubt, to himself bybee.

 

[Tambora]

I will start by saying I was a horn dog and chased every pretty skirt there was in my younger days.

You don't have to tell everything.

I can conceive of no circumstance where the woman would share any culpability if I decided to rape her.

Whew.

 

[ok doser]

I will start by saying I was a horn dog and chased every pretty skirt there was in my younger days. I am no self righteous saint. I can conceive of no circumstance where the woman would share any culpability if I decided to rape her.

Lonestar - if you had a daughter who went out to clubs, drinking, taking drugs, raves, ecstasy, roofies, dressed like a slut, twerked like miley cyrus, worked as a stripper, gave lap dances at frat parties.....

and then claimed that she had been raped....

would you tell her "oh, you poor poor thing, your behavior had nothing to do with what happened to you" ?

 

[ok doser]

Meanwhile, sod slips out the door while no one's looking.

the library closes at five on Friday :idunno:

I have your number, sod.

and I have yours

it's 169

You play big boy armchair warrior here, troll and throw crap here to your heart's content.

and it absolutely burns you up, doesn't it? :chuckle:

Blame the victims of rape for their rapes,

nope - never did that

you're a pathetic liar

and call murder victims cowards.

not all of them, just the ones who acted cowardly

And yet, in a class/on a campus that's predominantly female, you don't speak up because your opinions would be "unpopular."

oh, I speak up quite a bit

but seriously anna - how obsessed with me must you be to be outraged over how I behave in a classroom that you know nothing about?

You weasel.

you emo :idunno:

 

[annabenedetti]

and it absolutely burns you up, doesn't it? :chuckle:

Not at all. Contempt is cold.

nope - never did that

you're a pathetic liar

rape is a choice that women make

Your words speak for themselves.

not all of them, just the ones who acted cowardly

Which ones? Name them individually. Go ahead.

oh, I speak up quite a bit

but seriously anna - how obsessed with me must you be to be outraged over how I behave in a classroom that you know nothing about?

You just don't like me pointing out your hypocrisy. After all, if that classroom is filled with evil feminists, you remember that

the right action is always to oppose evil

(bolding is yours)

Except you don't. Because to speak up would be "unpopular."

So you do it here, instead. Anonymous displacement. :chuckle:

you emo :idunno:

You weasel.