Their reconciliation occurred when they were enemies (unbelievers).
Obedience. Is obedience to God a result of salvation and not a cause of it?
- Thread starter Jacob
- Start date
beloved57
Well-known member
That's right! And they are ensured future salvation while they are enemies and unbelievers!
When they were enemies and unbelievers they were reconciled to God and thereby ensured future salvation though they have now been saved in the present upon being reconciled.
beloved57
Well-known member
That's right, so then you should understand that Christ did not die for all men without exception, which is limited atonement.
It is not true that some people Christ did not die for. It is true that not everyone will be saved.
beloved57
Well-known member
It is true since those Christ died for are reconciled to God and ensured future salvation.
You are talking about atonement maybe? Because some people have been reconciled and some have not. Not everyone knows that Christ died for them. When they do they either may and can be saved or they are now saved.
beloved57
Well-known member
False statements. Those Christ died for are reconciled to God while they are enemies and unbelievers , and they are ensured of future salvation Rom 5:10!
Unbelievers can be reconciled to God. Ultimately this is something God does. When they are reconciled they are saved and they can then or thereby have assurance of salvation.
oatmeal
Well-known member
Yes.
Spiritually we have have been made the righteousness of God in him. II Corinthians 5:21, I Corinthians 1:30 ...
But are we living our lives accordingly?
That is how we make our lives pleasing to the Father, by living righteously in the body and soul categories, even though we are already righteous from a spiritual/legal standpoint.
Are you talking about living the life a believer should live after becoming a believer?
A person should seek the scriptures to find out if they are saved, or ask someone to help them do so.
HisServant
New member
Obedience to what?... someones interpretation of scripture?.. a communities take on things.. or the Holy Spirit?
God's commands, the Law, or the Holy Spirit.
How are you obedient to God and Jesus?
HisServant
New member
Irrelevant question, since God said he would write his laws on the hearts and minds of his children through the Holy Spirit.
The question is whether or not you are listening to the Holy Spirit.
I've been to so many different churches in many denominations... and most do not care about the guidance of the Holy Spirit all they care about is whether or not you obey their interpretation of things.
That is a great question also. My question of you had to do with your questions of who or what you are to obey.
Fair enough. But if you do not obey God and Jesus you are not listening to the Holy Spirit.
HisServant
New member
My opinion is that people who seek to obey are not Christians.... we obey because it is the new person that God has... obedience is effortless.
Yet, pastors and other preachers feed off of making you feel guilty because they make you feel that you are not measuring up to the standards that they say God wants you to abide by.... they are deceivers.. and probably do not know it.
beloved57
Well-known member
Some unbelievers are reconciled to God, them Christ died for!
Okay. But if you do not obey God you are not saved. You are not saved by your obedience. But since those who are saved obey, if you do not obey you can know you are not or likely are not saved.
Does this have to do with who or what to obey?
John 14:21 NASB - 21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."
Acts 5:32 NASB - 32 "And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him."
Romans 8:9 NASB - 9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.
Romans 13:1 NASB - 1 Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.
Hebrews 13:17 NASB - 17 Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you.
1 Peter 1:2 NASB - 2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.
1 Peter 1:22 NASB - 22 Since you have in obedience to the truth purified your souls for a sincere love of the brethren, fervently love one another from the heart,
Those who are reconciled to God are no longer unbelievers, but believers.