beloved57
Well-known member
False, they are reconciled to God by Christ death while they are enemies and unbelievers Rom 5:10!
Obedience. Is obedience to God a result of salvation and not a cause of it?
- Thread starter Jacob
- Start date
Yes, that is true. But why were we given the ministry of reconciliation?
beloved57
Well-known member
I have explained that in my threads!
Who was Paul talking about? Romans 5:10, where it says enemies.
beloved57
Well-known member
Read my thread on reconciled to God! I have explained that.
If you were an enemy and you were reconciled to God are you still an enemy of God?
HisServant
New member
Individual verses devoid of context mean nothing to me.
You have touched on the question of if any church or denomination is perfect. Here is what you should know about the local church or whatever church you attend. Remember, church is Biblically the people not the building.
Hebrews 10:24-25 NASB - 24 and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, 25 not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.
Hebrews 13:17 NASB - 17 Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they keep watch over your souls as those who will give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you.
HisServant
New member
Biblically, there is no church... its an ekklesia... two very different concepts.
One is rooted in paganism, the other rooted in freedom in Christ.
The word church is a translation many recognize, of ekklesia. But yours is also a Greek word, not Hebrew.
Do you understand my point about how there are people that make up the church, the body of Christ? Even if you don't like the word church you can still know that the body of Christ is not a building. You may one day see that you have freedom in Christ to use the word church. It appears in many English translations. And the Bible is the word of God. If you are opposed to its usage in some cases, no problem. Sin has no place in our lives and I applaud you for opposing paganism, though I have little familiarity with the idea.
"in" AND "the" AND "church"
occurs in 48 verses in the NASB.
Lexicon :: Strong's G1577 - ekklēsia
HisServant
New member
It only appears in most english bibles because of tradition... because King James refused to allow his translators to render the word as congregation or assembly instead. He did so for political reason, just like he required the term bishop to stay in his translation, even though it has no basis in the hebrew or greek... he had to maintain his hierarchy.
And unfortunately, most Christians adhere to his propaganda as being a legitimate translation... it isn't.
What English word would you use?
beloved57
Well-known member
Im not here to talk to about me personally. However those Christ died for , while they were enemies/unbelievers they were reconciled to God and ensured to be saved in the future Rom 5:10, and that does not apply to all without exception because Christ did not die for all without exception !
HisServant
New member
Assembly... it does not have a hierarchical connotation like the Apostles groups.
Church is to Anglican and Roman Catholic, it comes an implied authority that was inherited from paganism that was native to both countries.
Whereas assembly is more of a bottom up power structure, where the leaders are appointed by and can be removed by the assembly at will, based on the leading of the Holy Spirit.
FYI, Paul went to great lengths to plead with perspective leaders to earn their living from the secular world and not burden the assembly with supporting them.
Who did Christ die for?
I was asking about you, but if you do not talk about you (you can if you want) would you say that a person that is reconciled to God is not an enemy of God? I have it on good authority that they WERE an enemy of God, but no longer.
I used to be a part of the Plymouth Brethren Assemblies.
Have you thought about the word congregation?
Which term would you use from the Old Testament?
Some say the called out ones. I am not sure if you would follow that though.
beloved57
Well-known member
Those Christ died for are reconciled to God while they are enemies and unbelievers Rom 5:10!
Romans 5:8-11 NASB - 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. 10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
beloved57
Well-known member
So you can quote scripture!
Yes. "Copy" and paste.