Explain. I eat kosher and keep the Sabbath. I observe the four commandments in Acts 15.
No Tattoos
- Thread starter Jacob
- Start date
Explain. I eat kosher and keep the Sabbath. I observe the four commandments in Acts 15.
heir
TOL Subscriber
He never told any of us to keep them...Matthew 15:24 KJV, Romans 15:8 KJV. Those of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were given power to become the sons of God (John 1:12 KJV, Acts 1:8 KJV) that was not given unto us. We are in the dispensation of the grace of God where the righteousness of God WITHOUT THE LAW is manifested (Romans 3:21-22 KJV). You can stop the song and dance saying you keep the law. You were never under it, never kept it and God will not accept your attempts to place yourself under it...
heir
TOL Subscriber
Acts 15 is not even the gospel by which we are saved today let alone ordinances to us. In fact, they were against us and contrary to us:
Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Colossians 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
John 14:21 NASB - "He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."
Matthew 5:19 NASB - "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
There is no need to place yourself under the law. That is not what it meant by keeping God's commandments.
There is no greater burden placed upon you if you have turned to God from among the Gentiles than these four essentials.
Direction of Acts 15? You mean a continuance of keeping the law?
We have the "church born" on the day of Pentecost so right there the festivals are still kept...Paul celebrates them and instructs we celebrate the feast with the new unleavened bread of Truth...which festival is that you suppose? Christmas?...Peter insists he still eat kosher...
And as not just one but two of the four listed requirements in Acts 15 are related to Levitical dietary regulations...or do you mean to claim one can kill a pig by not strangling it and have it become clean meat...or by draining a dog of blood and thus making it clean to eat? Seriously?
James the the brother of Yahushua and head of Jerusalem church concluded:
"Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, 20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”
So what is the direction of Acts 15?
James knew the gentiles would continue to crowd the synagogues every Sabbath to hear more of Moses the OT its law...you do recall Paul instructing these crowding gentiles to come back next Sabbath...NOT the next day...but next week at the synagogue...NOT return to mid week bible study at mars hill chapel...
By this James intended the gentiles continue to graft themselves deeper and deeper into that church in the wilderness (as poor Stephen called it) every Sabbath they heard Moses...Spirit led to live JUST AS He did...
Those four were merely the threshold INTO the house of Israel...His people...living Obedient to the commandments of Yah and in the faith OF His Son...not just in Him
Paul instructed copy me JUST AS I copy Christ...and from what I have read I do NOT see Either of them eating Sunday Ham...
Just curious...are you of the same mindset when it comes to personal secular relationships?
Do you declare love for someone and then feel at liberty to do less and less as they do? Depending rather on grace and the tolerance of your loved one to understand you are indeed faithful?
As time goes on do you return to the way you were before that joyous day you met them?
Your family and friends see no change at all in you, your life/lifestyle?
Do you insist "but I told you I love you" and provide no evidence?
When the one you declared your love to asks you to do something do you NOT do it "because you said you loved me so I don't have to...besides that's you not me"?
It remains we keep the faith OF Him...His faith life...be more like Him not less...
Burden? His yoke is easy...and light...you want to do His ways...be like Him...JUST AS...not of this world
like a little boy trying on his father's shoes and tie seeking his identity for similarity
God's commandments are not burdensome. The reason it says no greater burden than these essentials, using the word burden, is because a burden is not desired for anyone who comes to God.
His burden is light...
Interesting to note:
Acts 15:24 NU-Text omits saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law.”
And the letter "to the brethren who are of the Gentiles" does not insist include worship on Sabbaths as that was not even on the Gentile's "what do we have to do?" list...they were already keeping it...crowding the synagogues each Sabbath to hear Moses...as James concluded...
iouae
Well-known member
If one wishes to dwell in the house of the Lord forever, one has to obey the house rules.
Some parents would object to their child coming home with a tattoo. God told Israel not to get tattoos.
Now suppose someone else wishes to come stay in the parents house. The parents would not want these guests getting new tattoos while they live with the parents, if for no other reason than that it sets a bad example to their own children.
I agree with Clefty when he says "Those four were merely the threshold INTO the house of Israel...His people...living Obedient to the commandments of Yah and in the faith OF His Son...not just in Him".
This is not a summary of all it takes to be a Gentile Christian. This is the minimum it takes for Jews and Gentiles to meet together in the same living room every Sabbath. And yes, although the Sabbath is not mentioned here, it is not mentioned because it is so obvious to all. Just like one does not have to mention coming to Sabbath services dressed, not nude, washed, not smelly etc.
By Acts 15, Christians had been booted out of synagogues and were meeting in homes. The Acts 15 list would not have allowed Gentiles into synagogues without them being circumcised. Synagogues would have required regular attendees to keep all 613 OT laws.
Sure Paul went to synagogues looking for Christian converts, but Paul did not leave converts in the synagogues once they were Christians. All earliest converts in Gentile areas were Jews and circumcised already. But as Gentiles heard Paul, they too wanted Christ, and these minimum rules were required for Jewish and Gentile converts to Christianity to coexist together.
Some parents would object to their child coming home with a tattoo. God told Israel not to get tattoos.
Now suppose someone else wishes to come stay in the parents house. The parents would not want these guests getting new tattoos while they live with the parents, if for no other reason than that it sets a bad example to their own children.
I agree with Clefty when he says "Those four were merely the threshold INTO the house of Israel...His people...living Obedient to the commandments of Yah and in the faith OF His Son...not just in Him".
This is not a summary of all it takes to be a Gentile Christian. This is the minimum it takes for Jews and Gentiles to meet together in the same living room every Sabbath. And yes, although the Sabbath is not mentioned here, it is not mentioned because it is so obvious to all. Just like one does not have to mention coming to Sabbath services dressed, not nude, washed, not smelly etc.
By Acts 15, Christians had been booted out of synagogues and were meeting in homes. The Acts 15 list would not have allowed Gentiles into synagogues without them being circumcised. Synagogues would have required regular attendees to keep all 613 OT laws.
Sure Paul went to synagogues looking for Christian converts, but Paul did not leave converts in the synagogues once they were Christians. All earliest converts in Gentile areas were Jews and circumcised already. But as Gentiles heard Paul, they too wanted Christ, and these minimum rules were required for Jewish and Gentile converts to Christianity to coexist together.
Yup...as it is repeated in the OT:
"You are to have the same law for the foreigner and the native-born. I am the LORD your God."
His house is not divided...
HalleluYah
I do not know the truth of your statement. Why do you say this (including) as James concluded? The Sabbath, circumcision, these are commandments of God. The Sabbath commandment is one of the Ten Commandments. Moses is read in the synagogues each or every Sabbath from ancient generations. Circumcision is a sign. I am circumcised, I am of the nation of Israel. I read, study, observe, keep, and teach the Torah. I observe and teach the Torah. I keep and teach the commandments.
Shalom.
Jacob
heir
TOL Subscriber
We are not likened to the Gentiles (Greeks in a KJB) who were under those ordinances. Gentiles to whom Paul was first sent certainly were (1 Corinthians 11:2 KJV), but those Gentiles (Galatians 3:29 KJV) were not like the Gentiles like the Ephesians and Colossians (Ephesians 2:11-12 KJV) to whom Paul was later sent and wrote to who were never subject to them. As you can see from the Colossians passage I cited before (Colossians 2:13-15 KJV), the handwriting of ordinances that those to whom Paul was first sent were to keep were against Gentiles like the Ephesians and Colossians to whom Paul was later sent. The handwriting of ordinances was against them and contrary to them just as it is us today! It was nailed to His (the Lord Jesus Christ's cross)! You wish to reinstate that which was taken away as you disapprove things that are excellent (Philippians 1:9-10 KJV). Your so called "essentials" are a curse (Galatians 3:10 KJV, Galatians 5:1 KJV, Galatians 5:13 KJV).
Paul was not seeking converts. He was preaching the truth. I do not know that your statements about meeting in homes are correct.
heir
TOL Subscriber
Matthew 5:18 KJV, Matthew 23:1-3 KJV, Matthew 28:19-20 KJV
You're not doing any of it nor were you commanded to in the dispensation of the grace of God where the righteousness of God WITHOUT THE LAW is manifested (Romans 3:21-22 KJV).
I do not know how to answer you. I encourage you to read and accept the entirety of Scripture.
I do not follow what you are saying. I do not follow, observe, accept, believe, or keep what you are saying.
For Israel, we have the Law. For those who have turned to God from among the Gentiles, the four essentials and no greater burden than these. You need not be troubled by those who say that you must be circumcised (man) and keep the entire or whole Law of Moses.
Faith does not make void the law, it establishes it.
If you minister to those without the law, the gospel of Jesus Christ, it is in the way that with the conscience the minds or thoughts of the Gentiles are alternately accusing or else defending them. Do you minister to those outside of the church? And, do you count yourself among Israel? The enmity has been abolished, that is, the Law of commandments contained in ordinances. There is a commonwealth of Israel but no spiritual Israel. And, the dividing wall, or the middle wall of separation, has been taken, or rather broken, down. Ephesians 2:11-22.
iouae
Well-known member
Jacob, you need the skill of figuring out when people are agreeing with you.
Unless your policy is to disagree with everyone, even those agreeing with you.
I do not find out when people are agreeing with me. What you are saying is not something that I say.