NO MORE WORKS

[God's Truth]

yup obedience is works...faith compelled works...the roots give fruits...inspect the fruits know the roots...

You want to go against the scriptures that say the old law was not based on faith then so be it.

Yup once saved ain’t no guarantee you are in buddy...persevere...overcome...hold fast...run the race...dont return to your vomit...stay true...keep the faith...retain the first love...

Right; we have to keep obeying.

yup...if you love Him keep His commandments...it’s just not faith alone...faith and works is not dead...but following Him HIS WAY HIS WORKS...

Right; we have to have faith now, whereas the old law did not require it. All a person had to do in the old law was to do the purification works of the law and they would be made clean. God did not like that, but that is the way it was.

during that time the church was in the wilderness there wasnt even a temple...and only the priests could go into the tabernacle...and yet

The church in the wilderness, you say. Give the scripture.

“If an alien sojourns with you, or one who may be among you throughout your generations, and he wishes to make an offering by fire, as a soothing aroma to the LORD, JUST AS YOU DO SO SHALL HE DO” Numbers 15:14

Neat eh? Just think the church from the time of the wilderness was NEVER divided...ONE PEOPLE ONE LAW...by faith...still that way

The person had to get circumcised, and do various external washings, and adhere to a dietary law. That was the people cleaning themselves! Now no one has to clean themselves, they only have to have faith that Jesus’ shed blood on the cross cleans them.

That’s another gospel...different than the one Peter and Paul taught...which is faith IN HIM then works His Works...do this and live and NOW even after the first death..

No. Faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone. Just believe the truth.

 

[bibleverse2]

And, behold, I come quickly;
and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Revelation 22:12

Romans 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

 

[God's Truth]

I didn't go against you, I was defending myself from your statement,
which falsely implied I said to sacrifice animals.

I see that God's word says to do all the words of His law.

Gather the people together,
men, and women, and children, and thy stranger that is within thy gates,
that they may hear, and that they may learn, and fear the LORD your God,
and observe to do all the words of this law:
Deuteronomy 31:12


So many say.

That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing;
but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Ephesians 5:26-27


Many say Paul said this and that, so they end up not doing what Jesus said.
I chose to not go that way.

For circumcision verily profits, if thou keep the law:
but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
Romans 2:25

I don't want to be made unborn again.

I gave that quote where you went against me for saying we don't have to do the purification works of the law anymore. The purification works of the law required circumcision of the flesh and sacrificing animals. You did go against me for it.

 

[bibleverse2]

We still have to obey Jesus . . .

Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

 

[God's Truth]

Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

I am glad you agree.

 

[bibleverse2]

I am glad you agree.

Yes, for:

Matthew 7:21 ¶Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

 

[comingfrom]

I gave that quote where you went against me for saying we don't have to do the purification works of the law anymore. The purification works of the law required circumcision of the flesh and sacrificing animals. You did go against me for it.

I am not here to stand against the blood of my brother,
but I am here presenting my testimony, the blood which I received of Him.
Even as you do.

I believe, to do the law never required carnal interpretations of the commandments.
God is a spirit, and His law is spiritual, and so I interpret the commandments spiritually.
Circumcision is of the heart, and in spirit,
and the bullocks we are to offer unto God are our spirits.
That is how we cast out our devils, our false notions.

If we can offer our bull to one another,
can we not offer it unto the Lord?

And hear what He has to say, about the offerings we make for our fellows.
And about the offerings our fellows make for us.

Praise Lord.

But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly;
and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter;
whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Romans 2:29

 

[clefty]

No. There were Jews who had faith and Jews that did not have faith.

the former obedient the latter less so...

All the Jews had to do is the purification works of the law.

but not to be saved...they already were...now it was to learn MERCY rather than sacrifice...to learn to love AS HE LOVED THEM...how to remain a holy people sanctified and circumcised from the world...the purification rituals were to teach about what is holy and what is not...what is clean and what is not...about the calendar of Yah...that He is the creator who saved them...to exercise and practice faith...they ARE all shadows pointing to things to come... Paul writes...notice the present tense he uses not the past tense...and pointing still to things yet to be fulfilled...

They did not all have faith. God said that He was going to make a new covenant based on faith.

ALL covenants are of faith...imagine if Adam and Eve had had enough faith...Noah had faith first was found blameless believed flood was coming then began to build...Abraham did nothing but believe and obey...

Don’t you know that before Jesus started his earthly ministry God cut off and hardened the Jews who did not already belong to him by faith?

right and? Even Egyptians followed Him into the desert after watching Him defeat their gods...that was faith...and they were given the same law same blessing same promise

It remains faith first...not do works in order to be saved...

One doesnt marry to do what is lawful in order to fall in love...but because one is ALREADY IN LOVE they wish to do what is lawful and marry...

 

[clefty]

Obeying God is what saves.

Abraham believed and OBEYED God BEFORE the scripture speaking of Abraham's faith:

Genesis 12:1
Now the LORD said to Abram, "Go forth from your country, And from your relatives And from your father's house, To the land which I will show you; 4 So Abram went, as the Lord had told him; and Lot went with him.

Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.

you did notice how Abraham went when called?...BY FAITH...

And even after Abraham obeyed and had faith, his faith was TESTED.

and he failed lying about Sarah...is why it is not ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED...it’s a lifetime race to run...a lifetime fight to fight...

Why would you call me a judaizer when I say the purification works of the law doesn't save anymore? Why do you think that Moses’ wife circumcised their son?

Cuz she understood the faith came BEFORE the sign of that faith...circumcision represents the faith of the parents...now when the boy infant grows up he merely needs to accept who he is and WHOSE he is...and HONOR HIS PARENTS...

Judiazers taught new believers HAD to be saved by circumcision which was never taught...Judaizers demanded 1) that goyim HAD to be circumcised to travel with live with israel (and be saved from egypt) 2) that one HAD to be circumcised in order to be saved and not as a sign for being already saved...

They ascribed too much power to the act...that is idolatry...

Was meant to teach circumcision of the heart...a separateness from the world...mercy rather than sacrifice...

 

[clefty]

Galatians 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

yes and already since Abraham’s time the gentiles were blesse by having His people amongst them...now the gentiles could see “For Yah so loved the world” not just His own but through them ALL...ALL should come worship...if they BELIEVED...that is had that faith...

They didn’t have faith. They grumbled and complained.

Numbers 14:2 All the Israelites grumbled against Moses and Aaron, and the whole assembly said to them, "If only we had died in Egypt! Or in this wilderness!

they did more than Oy Vey! kvetching...they had faith in other gods in other ways of worship...not Him HIS WAY

It is always about obeying God. It is about obeying God and whether He just says to not eat fruit from a certain tree, or to get circumcised, or to repent of your sins.

Yes agreed and covered that already...all covenants are FAITH BASED...Adam DID NOTHING to be created...he was merely to have faith that he was created and by WHOM and then in gratitude obey the One having faith first...sadly he didnt have enough faith...

Remember it is NOT what enters the person that makes him unclean but that the person is ALREADY unclean inside that HE ALLOWS that which is unclean inside...

Lose the faith disobey...Who and to what extent you obey Him reveals the faith...you establish the law which reveals Him your faith in Him...is WHY we are to follow Him and DO AS HE DID...

Made in His image is more than just “look like Him”...but be like Him do as He did

Copy me as I copy Christ...by your fruits they know da roots...ya dig?

 

[clefty]

You want to go against the scriptures that say the old law was not based on faith then so be it.

THEY WERE GIVEN THE OLD LAW BECAUSE THEY HAD FAITH FIRST...saved from egypt without the law...they were NOW given the Law to reveal who they were...even the six day then rest sequence was demonstrated first with the manna and then the Sabbath was given...

Right; we have to keep obeying.

yup...and now what? which? why? whose? How? are the questions to be answered...answers include: the commandments, all or some, to become saved or because we are, Yah’s or man’s, blood letting or with our lips having learned mercy through His sacrifice

Right; we have to have faith now, whereas the old law did not require it.

it was given to those who had it...faith was lost it is true but those that have it WANT to obey

All a person had to do in the old law was to do the purification works of the law and they would be made clean. God did not like that, but that is the way it was.

yes clean and NOT thrown out of camp but NOT SAVED ETERNALLY and NOT a good representative of Him...as they lost their first love...

Is why the jew only had advantage but they are not superior...the law did not save them...nor did it remove sin...read Hebrews...

The church in the wilderness, you say. Give the scripture.

Acts 7:38...and even then it was ONE LAW one people of faith then obedience...

The person had to get circumcised, and do various external washings, and adhere to a dietary law. That was the people cleaning themselves! Now no one has to clean themselves, they only have to have faith that Jesus’ shed blood on the cross cleans them.

both methods produced fruits by which His people are known...for their faith first then obedience...inspect the fruit know the root...faith with works is not dead

His blood cleans daily and for the rest of one’s life...if they have faith and obey...daily

Now daily all nations will be blessed by faithfulness and obedience...as you establish His law because of His love for you...and your love for Him...a love JUST AS HE LOVED YOU...so no sunday ham dinners thank you...

No. Faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone. Just believe the truth.

It remains:

FAITH IN HIM then obey and do works HIS WORKS...do this and live and NOW WITH FAITH IN HIM even after the first death...

truth is in one who obeys Him because they know Yah...that is faith

Peter was clear Yah gives the Holy Spirit to the ones who obey...to build their faith and guide in the way they should obey...daily

 

[meshak]

Many say Paul said this and that, so they end up not doing what Jesus said.
I chose to not go that way.

Exactly. well said.

 

[God's Truth]

Yes, for:

Matthew 7:21 ¶Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Right on.

 

[God's Truth]

I am not here to stand against the blood of my brother,
but I am here presenting my testimony, the blood which I received of Him.
Even as you do.

I believe, to do the law never required carnal interpretations of the commandments.

Of course, the people had to literally do things with their flesh bodies.
They really had to bring real animals.
They really had to get circumcised in the flesh.
They really had to do various external baths after menstrual cycles, and men's secretions, and just sitting where someone sat who had such things.
They really had a dietary law where they had to eat a certain diet and cook a certain way.

God is a spirit, and His law is spiritual, and so I interpret the commandments spiritually.
Circumcision is of the heart, and in spirit,
and the bullocks we are to offer unto God are our spirits.
That is how we cast out our devils, our false notions.

Denying that the people really had to do physical things is not the truth.
The New Covenant is about what is spiritual. The Old Testament was about earthy things.

 

[God's Truth]

the former obedient the latter less so...
but not to be saved...they already were...now it was to learn MERCY rather than sacrifice...to learn to love AS HE LOVED THEM...how to remain a holy people sanctified and circumcised from the world...the purification rituals were to teach about what is holy and what is not...what is clean and what is not...about the calendar of Yah...that He is the creator who saved them...to exercise and practice faith...they ARE all shadows pointing to things to come... Paul writes...notice the present tense he uses not the past tense...and pointing still to things yet to be fulfilled...

The people in the covenant with God HAD TO get circumcised in the flesh or they could NOT be called a child of God.

They HAD TO ATONE for their own sins!

Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood thatmaketh an atonement for the soul.


The Gentiles did not do the things required to be in the covenant with God, and they were called ‘unclean’ people and ‘without’ God’ and ‘separate from the promises’.

Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,

ALL covenants are of faith..

No they are not. A baby boy eight days old was in the covenant after being circumcised.

.imagine if Adam and Eve had had enough faith...Noah had faith first was found blameless believed flood was coming then began to build...

Noah had faith AND OBEDIENCE.
In Noah’s time there was not the Law yet of circumcision.
However, it is ALWAYS about FAITH AND OBEDENCE.
But the old law WAS NOT BASED ON FAITH.

Abraham did nothing but believe and obey...

right and? Even Egyptians followed Him into the desert after watching Him defeat their gods...that was faith...and they were given the same law same blessing same promise

It remains faith first...not do works in order to be saved...

If you don’t obey, then your faith is worthless, it is DEAD.

One doesnt marry to do what is lawful in order to fall in love...but because one is ALREADY IN LOVE they wish to do what is lawful and marry...

If a person isn’t doing right, then it is NOT love, no matter how much they tell the person they say they want to marry that they love them.

 

[God's Truth]

you did notice how Abraham went when called?...BY FAITH...

That is more proof that faith must accompany obedience.

and he failed lying about Sarah...is why it is not ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED...it’s a lifetime race to run...a lifetime fight to fight...

That is NOT when Abraham’s faith was tested. Abraham’s faith was tested when God asked him to sacrifice his son. Abraham was going to do that.

As for Abraham lying about Sarah, he didn’t really lie because Sarah was his sister.
Once saved always saved is possible if the person obeys and then repents when a mistake is made.

Cuz she understood the faith came BEFORE the sign of that faith...circumcision represents the faith of the parents...now when the boy infant grows up he merely needs to accept who he is and WHOSE he is...and HONOR HIS PARENTS...

Moses HAD TO DO WHAT GOD SAID or death would have happened.
Some believe that God was going to kill Moses, and others believe that God was going to take the baby’s life. EITHER PERSON, it is about obeying God.

Judiazers taught new believers HAD to be saved by circumcision which was never taught...Judaizers demanded 1) that goyim HAD to be circumcised to travel with live with israel (and be saved from egypt) 2) that one HAD to be circumcised in order to be saved and not as a sign for being already saved...

They ascribed too much power to the act...that is idolatry...

Was meant to teach circumcision of the heart...a separateness from the world...mercy rather than sacrifice...

God SAID to get circumcised in the flesh, and it had to be done.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Election is God chosing how, and through whom, he will fulfill His purposes. God did not chose Jacob because he did good, and Esau did evil. The election of grace is not dependant on doing good or evil. The election is of grace. The election is not of works.

That is why Romans 11:6 says that it is "no more of works". The remnant attains righteousness by the election of grace. If the election is by grace, then it is no more of works. Grace has been chosen by God for righteousness. Works have been eliminated as a means of attaining righteousness.

God's Grace is not given to the unfaithful.

Luke 16:10-13 10 He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much. 11 If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches? 12 And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own? 13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.​

 

[DougE]

God's grace is given to dead sinners who can not save themselves;

For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. Romans 5:6

Luke 10 He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.
11 If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?
12 And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own?
13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

These above verses were spoken to Israel in regard to the coming kingdom on earth, over which Christ would rule as King, and faithful Israel would be given authority to reign in positions of authority.

 

[comingfrom]

Thank you, GT.

Of course, the people had to literally do things with their flesh bodies.

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God,
that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God,
which is your reasonable service.
Romans 12:1

They really had to bring real animals.

For I spake not unto your fathers,
nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt,
concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
But this thing commanded I them, saying,
Obey My voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be My people:
and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
Jeremiah 7:22-23

They really had to get circumcised in the flesh.

And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart,
and the heart of thy seed,
to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul,
that thou mayest live.
Deuteronomy 30:6

They really had to do various external baths after menstrual cycles, and men's secretions, and just sitting where someone sat who had such things.

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God:
for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Romans 8:7

They really had a dietary law where they had to eat a certain diet and cook a certain way.

Whoso eats My flesh, and drinks My blood, hath eternal life;
and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:54

Jesus kept all the law. He fulfilled it perfectly.
Did we see Him advocating circumcision of the flesh? Sacrificing animals? Stoning sinners? Keeping times?
No we don't.
So keep the commandments as He kept them, and not as the carnally minded interpret them.

If ye keep My commandments, ye shall abide in My love;
even as I have kept My Father's commandments, and abide in His love.
John 15:10

 

[woodeneye]

God's grace is given to dead sinners who can not save themselves;

For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. Romans 5:6

Luke 10 He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.
11 If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?
12 And if ye have not been faithful in that which is another man's, who shall give you that which is your own?
13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

These above verses were spoken to Israel in regard to the coming kingdom on earth, over which Christ would rule as King, and faithful Israel would be given authority to reign in positions of authority.

How do these verses apply to the heading " No more works "?

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