One can read and fully understand something very thoroughly, and can come out of it "upside down," (read: in disagreement) in relation to what you think it should be. This is called disagreement. A Christian could read and fully understand the Quran, or the Satanic Bible, or any other religious text, and still disagree with it. An atheist can read and understand the Holy Bible and disagree with it. It's a basic logic system that most people tend to have. If everyone who read and understood something automatically agreed with it, then you'd all be atheists by now if you'd read any of Zakath's posts.
Nicer than God!
- Thread starter Clete
- Start date
One can read and fully understand something very thoroughly, and can come out of it "upside down," (read: in disagreement) in relation to what you think it should be. This is called disagreement. A Christian could read and fully understand the Quran, or the Satanic Bible, or any other religious text, and still disagree with it. An atheist can read and understand the Holy Bible and disagree with it. It's a basic logic system that most people tend to have. If everyone who read and understood something automatically agreed with it, then you'd all be atheists by now if you'd read any of Zakath's posts.
And I would be happy to go over it piece by piece and point out the flaws of logic.
He's good, Enyart.
"Even the devil quotes scriptures for his purpose."
For Enyart, it is a call to mistreat anyone who he deems unworthy.
It's the antithesis of christianity. It's much more along the lines of Pharisee thinking.
I still can't figure out how loving someone as much as you love another translates into yelling at them, wishing them to be executed, saying they make you sick, and turning on your heels.
I have yet to understand how, despite the numerous posts from different posters, saying that if you are forgiven, how treating others in condemnation for being sinners is in contradiction with the words of Christ.
We all keep asking you questions, and you have no answers.
He's good, Enyart.
"Even the devil quotes scriptures for his purpose."
For Enyart, it is a call to mistreat anyone who he deems unworthy.
It's the antithesis of christianity. It's much more along the lines of Pharisee thinking.
I still can't figure out how loving someone as much as you love another translates into yelling at them, wishing them to be executed, saying they make you sick, and turning on your heels.
I have yet to understand how, despite the numerous posts from different posters, saying that if you are forgiven, how treating others in condemnation for being sinners is in contradiction with the words of Christ.
We all keep asking you questions, and you have no answers.
Turbo: I do. 
But not same-sex attraction, which is different.
So thus, not all homosexuals are damned to hellfire.
But not same-sex attraction, which is different.
So thus, not all homosexuals are damned to hellfire.
Biblical Scholars, who studied who spoke, to whom, look at translation, and look at it responsibly are unable to say for sure.
Half say it definitely condemns it.
The other half say that it was referring to idol practices of pagan temples.
So, if those studying that much and believing in it differ, then, no, I don't.
And those who say that it is black and white don't study it that intensely.
Originally posted by Nietzschean
Turbo: I do.
But not same-sex attraction, which is different.
So thus, not all homosexuals are damned to hellfire.
The thing that always sticks with me it the strange insinuation that if only I become heterosexual, I will make it into heaven.
Chileice
New member
You are right about my point. But what worries me more is that Clete and the writer of the article don't get the point of the Bible. Yes, Clete, I read the whole painful article. It is written by someone with some kind of complex.
You and he are not READing scripture, you are reading INTO it. So many of the verses quoted are so out of context. So many times the writer asserts sarcasm when one would have to be present to determine such an attitude. A sarcastic jaded hateful person might be able to read sarcasm into some passages, but it is a refection of their own pain rather than a reflection of God's grace.
If anyone should understand grace, it should be one forgiven. Jesus' harshest comments (as you point out) were for the Pharisees... self-righteous religious bigots. He WAS gracious and kind to the hurting and to the sinful. He even healed people for whom we have no record of repentance. He even healed ungrateful people like 9 out of the 10 lepers. I have no doubt he would heal AIDS patients whether they were likely to be thankful or repentant or not.
You are missing the whole point of the incarnation. God became man, yet without sin. He was the only one not to sin. He only came out of MERCY. A word sadly lacking in your vocabulary. MERCY and GRACE. If you are based on the law, you are a judaizer, not a Christian. If you think we are here to harrang people into the kingdom... I don't think we are headed for the same kingdom. To say the Bible does not teach us to love the sinner but hate the sin is an outright lie. Go read Jude 22 and 23. You are doing Christianity a GREAT disservice by spouting off inane stuff like we ought to be out flogging and killing people. Jesus died for those very people and HE said: "Father forgive them for they do not know what they are doing." I pray that you will experience forgiveness as well and that you will be able to love in the way we are exhorted to love in Col. 3.
I do not hate you or despise you, but I do pity you. I feel you have missed out on the joy of the eternal life Christ has promised to those who believe. Pray for those who persecute you for those who are lost and trust that Christ will bring them to his throne of grace. Please re-examine the New Testament with a heart that is not full of judgement and bitterness. Look through the Spirit´s eyes and not through Bob's mouth.
Blessings.
What are you talking about?
When have gotten hysterical. You bring up accusations and I defend against them, you say something that is wrong, I say so. It seems that it is you who cannot stand the heat. You deal with it! I can do this all day long! Just keep in mind that you will give an account for every idol word you speak. I recommend that you make sure you know what you are talking about before proceeding.
Resting in Him,
Clete
You missunderstood what I meant when I said that. I know he disagrees with Bob's position. What I don't understand is how he get Bob's position so backward! He is arguing against things that neither I nor Bob have said or advocate. It is literally as if he hasn't read the article.
lost anomaly
New member
Great Article Clete! I agree taht at times harshness is needed there is a line that should not be crossed. Softness robs people of the true meaning of Chrisitanity. It dilutes the truth.
But.... From most of the people I have talked to they would rather listen to some one who is respectful and at times harsh then down right rude.
But.... From most of the people I have talked to they would rather listen to some one who is respectful and at times harsh then down right rude.
You have not asked a single question that I have not answer numerous times!
You keep asking the same questions I keep giving the same answers and will continue do so.
Yelling at someone can very easily be the most loving thing that can be done if the situation is appropriate.
And it is interesting that you condemn Bob and I for being condemning. And you think I am contradicting Christ?
Jesus said to let not you love be hypocrisy, HATE what is evil!
You could say to God, "I love you."
He might ask in response, "Oh is that right? Well, what do you think of the devil?"
If you responded, "Lord, I do my best to love everyone!"
then I can guarantee you that God would say "In that case, I don't want anything to do with your love, hypocrite!"
Resting in Him,
Clete
Finally! Someone who gets it!
It all depends. When the situation calls for it then respect is appropriate. At other times, like dealing with people who are engaged in or defending what God calls capital crimes then respect is the last thing one should show both for their sake and for yours and everyone else around.
Resting in Him,
Clete
You are a liar!
You could not possibly have read the article and said anything like this statement right here. No one has even suggested that we should be out flogging and killing people! In fact I have said the reverse three times now myself!
If I am wrong and you have read it then I consider your having made this statement an intentional lie.
I recommend reading it again. And this time try taking your own advice and don't read into it, just read it.
Resting in Him,
Clete
lost anomaly
New member
I got to agree Nietzschean on this. The most loving thing you can do is show them the way.
Clete,
You have to get a grip on reality son.
You advocate that the law should punish those who transgress YOUR interpretation of religious laws.
Islamic State anyone !
Has it ever dawned on you that people like me KNOW your stupid God does not exist.. if you try and force me to live by your ridiculous religious laws you better bring a big gun !
I don’t give a rats about what fags do to other consenting fags.. but I DO care about nuts like you who want ME to live in a Fundamentalist State !
You have to get a grip on reality son.
You advocate that the law should punish those who transgress YOUR interpretation of religious laws.
Islamic State anyone !
Has it ever dawned on you that people like me KNOW your stupid God does not exist.. if you try and force me to live by your ridiculous religious laws you better bring a big gun !
I don’t give a rats about what fags do to other consenting fags.. but I DO care about nuts like you who want ME to live in a Fundamentalist State !
Chileice
New member
You wrote this. You appear to be supporting the killing of homosexuals (by the government, of course, that you elect and support) Would YOU pull the trigger?
I did reread the article as you asked. It still is a far cry from the New Testament I have read dozens of times in my 30 years as a Christian. If I had thought Jesus was meaner than the Devil; I probably wouldn't have asked him to forgive my sins and come into my life because he would have been a bigger clod than I was.
To say uncategorically that Jesus was rude is bunk. He himself said at least three times that the greates commandment in the Bible was to love God with all your heart, mind and soul and to love your neighbour as yourself. We don't hang ourselves for our own sins because we love ourselves enough not to. We should let GOD be God. Maybe if we stopped trying to usurp his role the world could see more clearly what he is up to. If I have to defend God, how big is He? I do not have to defend him. I love him and trust him... including his judgement.