Nicer than God!
- Thread starter Clete
- Start date
1Jesus entered Jericho and was passing through. 2A man was there by the name of Zacchaeus; he was a chief tax collector and was wealthy. 3He wanted to see who Jesus was, but being a short man he could not, because of the crowd. 4So he ran ahead and climbed a sycamore-fig tree to see him, since Jesus was coming that way.
5When Jesus reached the spot, he looked up and said to him, "Zacchaeus, come down immediately. I must stay at your house today." 6So he came down at once and welcomed him gladly.
7All the people saw this and began to mutter, "He has gone to be the guest of a 'sinner.' "
8But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, "Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount."
9Jesus said to him, "Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. 10For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost."
Did Jesus first condemn him, call him a thief, as the tax collectors were?
Or did he first show kindness, and in his kindness, also changed the heart of Zaccheus?
And the judgement of the non-sinners?
That Jesus was a fool going to the house of a sinner.
They thought he was being "Nicer than God", I imagine.
So, again, I ask you, how is this attack on people in following with your Christ?
And what can it possibly gain?
5When Jesus reached the spot, he looked up and said to him, "Zacchaeus, come down immediately. I must stay at your house today." 6So he came down at once and welcomed him gladly.
7All the people saw this and began to mutter, "He has gone to be the guest of a 'sinner.' "
8But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, "Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount."
9Jesus said to him, "Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. 10For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost."
Did Jesus first condemn him, call him a thief, as the tax collectors were?
Or did he first show kindness, and in his kindness, also changed the heart of Zaccheus?
And the judgement of the non-sinners?
That Jesus was a fool going to the house of a sinner.
They thought he was being "Nicer than God", I imagine.
So, again, I ask you, how is this attack on people in following with your Christ?
And what can it possibly gain?
beanieboy,
Zacchaeus was clearly had a repentant and humble heart. Jesus could plainly see it. Any third-grader reading the story should be able to see it, too. He was seeking after the Lord, and he ever is recorded calling Him "Lord."
Jesus called sinners to repent. You can't tell someone they need to repent without calling him a sinner, which is offensive to most people (like you).
To those who were repentant, those with humble attitudes toward Him, He was gentle.
To those who were hard-hearted toward Him, putting their own beliefs above His commandments which were revealed through the prophets, He was quite harsh.
You, beanieboy, are among the latter. You reject the truth of God in favor of what is right in your own eyes.
If you think Clete is harsh, wait until you meet God. He is not merciful toward those who reject His mercy.
Zacchaeus was clearly had a repentant and humble heart. Jesus could plainly see it. Any third-grader reading the story should be able to see it, too. He was seeking after the Lord, and he ever is recorded calling Him "Lord."
Jesus called sinners to repent. You can't tell someone they need to repent without calling him a sinner, which is offensive to most people (like you).
To those who were repentant, those with humble attitudes toward Him, He was gentle.
To those who were hard-hearted toward Him, putting their own beliefs above His commandments which were revealed through the prophets, He was quite harsh.
You, beanieboy, are among the latter. You reject the truth of God in favor of what is right in your own eyes.
If you think Clete is harsh, wait until you meet God. He is not merciful toward those who reject His mercy.
1Jesus entered Jericho and was passing through. 2A man was there by the name of Zacchaeus; he was a chief tax collector and was wealthy. 3He wanted to see who Jesus was, but being a short man he could not, because of the crowd. 4So he ran ahead and climbed a sycamore-fig tree to see him, since Jesus was coming that way.
Where exactly is he repentant?
He wanted to see Jesus.
Where was Jesus harsh to the sinner?
You are adding things that aren't there.
I read nowhere "Jesus could see Zaccheus' heart..."
Personally, I think the point was to show the high and mighty that he came for the sinners, so they should put down their stones and self righteousness, and reach out in kindness.
Jesus is Nicer than God.
As for me?
You don't know my heart.
Nor to YOU listen to your own holy text.
Christ spoke of an arrogant Pharissee, thanking God he was not like the adulterers, the thieves, and THAT tax collector...
But the tax collector was humble before God, and said, "Have mercy on me, a sinful man."
You do not know my heart.
Although I have shown the fruit of it.
I would be careful on damning people to hell, because that is how you will be judged.
If you look coldly on others, and condemn them, so shall you be judged.
But if you look upon people with mercy, so shall you have mercy.
But what arrogance to be forgiven of God, and then walk around calling others sinners in a haughty manner.
How foul that must smell before God.
Where exactly is he repentant?
He wanted to see Jesus.
Where was Jesus harsh to the sinner?
You are adding things that aren't there.
I read nowhere "Jesus could see Zaccheus' heart..."
Personally, I think the point was to show the high and mighty that he came for the sinners, so they should put down their stones and self righteousness, and reach out in kindness.
Jesus is Nicer than God.
As for me?
You don't know my heart.
Nor to YOU listen to your own holy text.
Christ spoke of an arrogant Pharissee, thanking God he was not like the adulterers, the thieves, and THAT tax collector...
But the tax collector was humble before God, and said, "Have mercy on me, a sinful man."
You do not know my heart.
Although I have shown the fruit of it.
I would be careful on damning people to hell, because that is how you will be judged.
If you look coldly on others, and condemn them, so shall you be judged.
But if you look upon people with mercy, so shall you have mercy.
But what arrogance to be forgiven of God, and then walk around calling others sinners in a haughty manner.
How foul that must smell before God.
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Kiwicottonball
New member
I can only imagine.
The story of the man who owed a great sum, and was forgiven his debt, but refused to forgive the debt owed to him, which was much smaller?
It's so surreal coming here, and not believing the Bible is the word of God, necessarily, but having to use it to point it out to Christians, who more or less, contradict it.
It's so surreal coming here, and not believing the Bible is the word of God, necessarily, but having to use it to point it out to Christians, who more or less, contradict it.
He had no reason to be harsh to Zacchaeus. Zacchaeus sought after Jesus and called Him Lord.
It is obvious that Jesus was able to perceive such things.
You're interpretation "adds things" just as much as mine.
Did Jesus speak against the death penalty altogether? No. Jesus upheld all of God's commandments. They were His commandments, after all. He didn't come to testify against Himself.
No. Jesus IS God.
You boast about your perversion and claim that it is not sinful.
My holy text says to warn the wicked.
How I wish you were like him! You are not humble before God. You deny your sin. You need to humble yourself before the Lord Jesus Christ, repent of your sinful ways, and ask Him for mercy.
"You will know them by their fruits." Matthew 7:16
I don't have the authority to damn you to hell. But because you reject Christ, you are condemned already (John 3:18 note the red lettering).
Now you are judging my heart, hypocrite.
Does God grant mercy to the unrepentant? No!
If I were cold toward you, I would remain silent while you wallow in your sin. I'm trying to get you to wake up so that you might repent... so that God can be merciful toward you.
I was a sinner until three years ago when I accepted Christ as my Lord and the mercy He offers through the blood He shed on the cross. Now though I still frequently sin in my flesh, I am identified in Christ and His righteousness. I have no righeousness of my own.
Lovejoy
Active member
This is an interesting "discussion". Perhaps gays do deserve death, but then so do we all, do we not? If the harshness of your approach stumbles one who might come, where are you? Christ says that He did not come to judge, but to save. Otherwise He would have destroyed to world, not His own life. On the otherhand, if we are so soft that we end up as the Corinthians did, we are under judgement. The episcopalians and united methodists are in trouble, for sure. Can we be soft of heart and yet have an unyielding sense of right and wrong? Can we judge someone worthy of death and yet lay down our life that they might be saved? Christ did. I plan on beating my breast and asking "why I am worthy, a sinner?"
Freak
New member
It is self evident that you're a novice in regards to understanding God's Word for it declares...
Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?
God's kindness first upon a sinner brings them to Him.
Freak
New member
Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?
As a baby believer, who still feeds off milk, stop making anti-Christ statements such as this:
Does God grant mercy to the unrepentant? No.
God's Word militates against you:
Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance.
God's kindness to the sinner (those who were unrepentant) brings them to Him.
Did you even read the article?
All three of these were repentent! And even if that could be argued (which it can't) Jesus was hardlt sweet and friendly to the woman at the well. It may be no big deal to be accused of sleeping around today but I assure it was then. Jesus was very direct and didn't pull any punches with the truth, if people responded rightly then He was quick to forgive if not then He was equally quick to condemn and to be intentionally offensive.
Resting in Him,
Clete
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Did you even read the article?
Who said anything about taking vengeance?
Are you suggesting that we should be tolerant of homo's and adulterers? If so it is you who need to reread the New Testament. We are taught that we (the governing authorities) should execute such criminals.
Are you also saying that it is wrong to judge?
Please, tell me you not judging me for judging people because if so then we know what that makes you, right?
Resting in Him,
Clete
What are you talking about?
Did you even read the article?
Who said anything about extermination?
By your logic we shouldn't even execute murders!
And frankly I don't really care if they repent or not? I would prefer that they do but that's not the reason for stigmatizing them or at least not the primary one.
They are criminals and as such they are dangerous in many ways to everyone around them. Homosexuality should be recriminalized, restigmatized and preached against in that order. The criminal code teaches the entire society what is right and what is wrong, stigmatization of a behavior offers strong peer pressure toward the prevention of such behavior wherever it stigmatized, and local preaching and other form of personal persuasion are effective in one on one situations when the perpetrators intentions and attitudes can be specifically determined.
When I am in a public forum, the only one of these three forces that I can personally bring to bear is the second and so I do not hesitate to do so. My intent is not primarily to engender repentance in the homo's case but to impact those around him and myself in such a way as to cause them to think twice before associating or participating with homo's.
Resting in Him,
Clete
Did you even read the article?
See previous post. My intent is not specifically to casue them to repent. To plant a seed of guilt perhaps but that is all. They will not repent anyway unless their guilt is communicated. You would have me try to get them saved before they even understand that they're lost.
Resting in Him,
Clete
I was not forgiven by God until I repented and I am likewise willing and happy to forgive if and when someone repents, not before.
Further, it is you who is being haughty not me! I do what I do with measured intent and purpose and my harshness is reserved for those who have shown cause to deserve it. You on the other hand misrepresent or don't understand what you are even ranting about! You don't mind giving me a hard time but heaven forbid that we hurt a homo's feelings.
Resting in Him,
Clete