NFL 2014

[tetelestai]

how many 39 year old quarterbacks get 20 million?

No 39 year QB has ever started a Super Bowl.

Here's a list of starting QB's in the Super Bowls by age (only the bolded won the Super Bowl they started)

1) John Elway 38
2) Peyton Manning 37
3) Johnny Unitas 37
4) Kurt Warner 37
5) John Elway 37
6) Tom Brady 37 (this year)
7) Rich Gannon 37
8) Fran Tarkenton 36
9) Roger Staubach 36
10) Jim Plunkett 36

* the 37 & 36 year olds are listed chronologically as per how old they were on the day of the Super Bowl they played in.

 

[Town Heretic]

they rarely discuss his ability to win playoff games

Pft, that's all they discuss, the appearance of his inability (which a SB ring and MVP rather argues against) even in the indirect, as in greatest regular season qb. Absurd, as if physics and ability differ from one to the other (they don't and neither do his overall statistics much, though most dip a little in the heat of the playoffs, both because of the level of competition and the wear of a season).

 

[Town Heretic]

Peyton has a birthday coming up, it's March 24th. He'll be 39 years old. Which means he will be almost 39 1/2 on opening day of the 2015 NFL season.

That's too old to play QB in the NFL.

It's too old for most. It wasn't for Moon, Favre and a few others. And given how little he tends to be hit it really isn't for Peyton (who in his 38th year was the third highest ranked at his position until his injury).

 

[tetelestai]

It's too old for most. It wasn't for Moon, Favre and a few others. And given how little he tends to be hit it really isn't for Peyton (who in his 38th year was the third highest ranked at his position until his injury).

Oldest QB's in the history of the NFL:

1) George Blanda- 48
2) Steve DeBerg - 44
3) Warren Moon - 44
4) Vinny Testeverde - 44
5) Doug Flutie - 43
6) Earl Morrall - 42
7) Mark Brunell - 41
8) Brett Favre - 41

 

[Arsenios]

this could be personal

Patriots owner Robert Kraft said firing Carroll was one of the toughest decisions he has had to make since buying the team, stating "A lot of things were going on that made it difficult for him to stay, some of which were out of his control.

Tough decisions...

This one comin' back...

Gonna bite him...

Cool difference is the Pat's are men playing a boy's game as men, all serious and bullying and full of anger and hate to destroy their opponents with all their talent...

The Hawks, otoh, and men playing a boy's game as boys, filled with love and joy and loyalty and self-sacrifice... And Lynch is winning his argument with Big Business NFL owners trying to push him around... Smart guy... And a VERY GOOD GUY in my book...

The sports media like to portray the Hawks as a rah-rah-joe-college team...

They are simply playing a boy's game as older boys that younger boys can admire...

With great JOY...

Arsenios

 

[Town Heretic]

...The Hawks, otoh, and men playing a boy's game as boys, filled with love and joy and loyalty and self-sacrifice... And Lynch is winning his argument with Big Business NFL owners trying to push him around... Smart guy... And a VERY GOOD GUY in my book...

He's a guy who doesn't respect his obligations or carry himself as a professional on or off the field while being the first to market his paper thin, faux rebel song and dance, transmogrified into a suddenly loquacious corporate shill for a buck... lain: Yeah, he's peachy.

And Sherman...lots of angry self promotion in victory. Nowhere to be seen in defeat. Strike two.

If it wasn't for your qb and your coach you'd be the Raiders a few decades back.

 

[The Berean]

Oldest QB's in the history of the NFL:

1) George Blanda- 48
2) Steve DeBerg - 44
3) Warren Moon - 44
4) Vinny Testeverde - 44
5) Doug Flutie - 43
6) Earl Morrall - 42
7) Mark Brunell - 41
8) Brett Favre - 41

Actually wasn't Blanda's last full game at QB at age 39? From age 40-48 he was strictly as a kicker. He has a few pass attempts in his 40's but I wonder if those were off fake field goal attempts?

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BlanGe00.htm

 

[Arsenios]

If it wasn't for your qb and your coach you'd be the Raiders a few decades back.

Well, it is a whole team effort, and if the QB has a bad day, like against Green Bay, the whole team supports him... And that results in a lot of wins...

Who plays, in your opinion, with more JOY?

New England, who wants to break arms to win?

OR...

Seattle, who can't stop laughing on good plays...??

I didn't think you were THAT sour grapes on those two players...

I was hoping for a little more generosity of Spirit...

Arsenios

 

[Town Heretic]

Well, it is a whole team effort, and if the QB has a bad day, like against Green Bay, the whole team supports him... And that results in a lot of wins...

Don't get me wrong. It's a solid team. Great defense and a capable offense.

Who plays, in your opinion, with more JOY?

Favre? Mostly I don't think about their motives. I just watch the play on the field and I don't see a great deal of difference. Pro athletes want to win. Even the ones who are all about money have the emotional muscle memory of youth pumping through their veins and, of course, winning brings more of everything, money and fame, etc.

New England, who wants to break arms to win?

You do realize that was an ex Seahawk Brandon Browner who made that comment...

OR...

Seattle, who can't stop laughing on good plays...??

I don't think joyful when Sherman does the yawning bit on the field, going into a self congratulatory tirade, an oddly angry tirade at a time when he should actually be joyful... I don't see joy in your rb grabbing his crotch as he hits the goal line.

I see two men in need of a little maturity. Jim Brown knew it. Act like you've been there and you expect to be back.

I didn't think you were THAT sour grapes on those two players...

Lynch is worse for the hypocrisy he piles on top of the classless end zone act and the unprofessional approach to the people who help stir the popularity of his sport. Sherman...is mostly just a hot dog. I don't like it, but what loses respect from me is the invisible man routine and the silence when he's faced with a loss. No thanks. It's not about grapes, it's about them. Else you wouldn't get compliments on anyone in or attached to the organization.

I was hoping for a little more generosity of Spirit...

You got it in my noting your coach and qb as well as my remarking on your defense and offense above. The rest was an honest if hard enough assessment. I'm not a fan of either team in the contest.

But look, they're your team and they aren't defined by one or two players. You could argue the sum is infinitely better than a few parts and I completely understand. Most teams have a guy or two. I'm being harder with you and yours to some extent because you don't acknowledge who those guys are when it's staring at you from a podium.

 

[chrysostom]

Oldest QB's in the history of the NFL:

1) George Blanda- 48
2) Steve DeBerg - 44
3) Warren Moon - 44
4) Vinny Testeverde - 44
5) Doug Flutie - 43
6) Earl Morrall - 42
7) Mark Brunell - 41
8) Brett Favre - 41

how old was brett when the packers let him go? 38?

 

[chrysostom]

Tough decisions...

This one comin' back...

Gonna bite him...

Cool difference is the Pat's are men playing a boy's game as men, all serious and bullying and full of anger and hate to destroy their opponents with all their talent...

The Hawks, otoh, and men playing a boy's game as boys, filled with love and joy and loyalty and self-sacrifice... And Lynch is winning his argument with Big Business NFL owners trying to push him around... Smart guy... And a VERY GOOD GUY in my book...

The sports media like to portray the Hawks as a rah-rah-joe-college team...

They are simply playing a boy's game as older boys that younger boys can admire...

With great JOY...

Arsenios

carroll is older than belichick
experience vs enthusiasm
I like that
I want to see belichick win
because
he created a team
others with their overpaid quarterbacks want to believe he cheated

carroll has also created a team
may the best team win

 

[chrysostom]

as in greatest regular season qb.

how does the 'greatest regular season qb' lose the most playoff games?

 

[Town Heretic]

how does the 'greatest regular season qb' lose the most playoff games?

He mostly doesn't. His teams mostly do. And sometimes, as in the San Diego game Brady's team won on the way to one of their Super Bowl wins, if your team is good enough it will even win when you play a game that should sink you.

 

[chrysostom]

He mostly doesn't. His teams mostly do. And sometimes, as in the San Diego game Brady's team won on the way to one of their Super Bowl wins, if your team is good enough it will even win when you play a game that should sink you.

thanks for making my argument
but
there is more to it

when does the excessive salary of a quarterback hurt the rest of the team?

 

[Granite]

He mostly doesn't. His teams mostly do. And sometimes, as in the San Diego game Brady's team won on the way to one of their Super Bowl wins, if your team is good enough it will even win when you play a game that should sink you.

That or he's got some real rotten luck.

 

[Town Heretic]

thanks for making my argument

I've been making the coaching and team, discerning the appropriate role and contribution of qbs within that strata for years, a lot of them here. You want one of the best examples of coaching impact look at the Oakland Raiders in 2002. Gruden gets them in position to get there and then beats them with yet another team that hadn't gone before.

but
there is more to it

It takes a team and it takes a few breaks, usually. The best team in a year doesn't always even get to the game, see Houston with Moon, etc.

when does the excessive salary of a quarterback hurt the rest of the team?

When it keeps you from getting what you need to remain competitive. High salaries at the position didn't keep any number of teams from reaching the game and winning it. Some more than once. But you still have to have the right personnel.

 

[chrysostom]

High salaries at the position didn't keep any number of teams from reaching the game and winning it.

I can only look at recent super bowl history

2011 rodgers 15th highest paid quarterback
2012 eli 9th highest paid quarterback
2013 flacco 17th highest paid quarterback
2014 wilson 53rd highest paid quarterback
2015 wilson 40th highest paid quarterback
2015 brady 17th highest paid quarterback

 

[Town Heretic]

That or he's got some real rotten luck.

To me it's more a matter of having inferior teams and having a few close, tough losses strung into something, over years, to give the wrong impression.

One of the things Peyton haters love to chant is one and dones. But look at those.

2003: 0-41 loss to the Jets. Horrible loss. Everyone should be ashamed of how they did in that one. Peyton was awful. 0 tds, 2 int and all of 137 yds. That's a guy playing a very bad game and a team doing likewise.

2006: a 21-18 loss that wasn't embarrassing for anyone. That Steeler team beat Denver next, in Denver, 34-17 in route to winning the Super Bowl 21-10 over Seattle. So the best contest they had in that playoff run was against Indy.

2008: a 28-24 loss to a very good and very balanced San Diego team that would do it to them again a year later. Peyton threw for over four hundred yards, 3 tds and 2 picks. Rivers threw 3 tds against 1 pick. The Chargers put up about a hundred yards. The unbalanced Colts couldn't make fifty, which meant they could tee off against Peyton and smother the passing game...well, as much as you can without getting in the back field with him.

2009: 17-23 loss to those same Chargers. Peyton threw for 310, 1 td and 0 picks. The Colts managed 64 yds rushing. The Chargers? Rivers turn to have a bad day, with no tds and one pick, but the Chargers ran for 167 yds and that was the clock controlling difference.

2011: 15-17 loss to the Jets. A defensive battle with one of the best defensive minds doing what he also did to New England, keep it low and tight and hope for something. Peyton? Over a hundred qbr but neither team could move the ball consistently. The Jets offense stunk but their defense was magnificent. It's a two point game.

2013: 38-35 over time loss to the Ravens. Tough loss to the eventual SB champion that never should have reached over time.

The last debacle I've discussed. He shouldn't have been in the game with torn quads and no ability to really plant, which showed in the last few games and after a couple of hits he was done.

So that's one Peyton not getting it done and one injury game out of those seven. With the right team he could have as easily been the winner of five of them. So the one and done losses really reduce to a guy who was good enough to pilot teams to seven opportunities, not a guy who choked and lost them.

 

[Town Heretic]

I can only look at recent super bowl history

2011 rodgers 15th highest paid quarterback
2012 eli 9th highest paid quarterback
2013 flacco 17th highest paid quarterback
2014 wilson 53rd highest paid quarterback
2015 wilson 40th highest paid quarterback
2015 brady 17th highest paid quarterback

No, you choose to, because it appears to make the case than a historic argument won't. Heck, just narrow it to this year and claim the rule.

 

[Town Heretic]

You know...metrics aside, I was considering making a thread about putting together an all time team. Say you didn't have to worry about anyone else, you had the first pick at every position how would that roster look...

So I considered the qb position and you know what, I don't think many people with a historical understanding of the game picks either Tom or Peyton first. I know I wouldn't...for me it would be between two guys. Either I'd take Montana for the ice water in his veins and knowing if I put the best players around him he'd be nearly unstoppable...or I'd take Marino, who is still the most remarkable single player at the position I've watched play. Think of Dan with an all time cast. Standing behind that Cowboy's line that protected Aikman, handing off to Barry Sanders, throwing to Jerry Rice...

I think if you gave Marino the weapons Tom or Peyton had in their best offense ever years, with the present rules he'd make both of those extraordinary players look like the next best thing. So maybe, beyond metrics there's another way to think of all timers.