I agree with everything that Berean mentioned, but I'd add that the Warriors played well without any significant offensive contributions from either Klay or Draymond. Also, the Cavs postseason numbers were a tad inflated by the fact that they played against a bunch of Eastern conference teams that struggle to score and can't defend a player like Lebron. The Warriors can do both with varying degrees of success.
NBA 2016-17
- Thread starter The Berean
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Agreed. And he should be the difference.
Not sure I agree with that. I think they're just better with Durant. It takes a lot of stress off any run.
I absolutely agree that health played a role in both meetings.
It was a special series, looking in from the outside. I enjoyed watching it. I hope this one goes seven.
That's what everyone said last year too. They're better when you think about it, even if they're really not playing better than last year. But James is across the court with a couple of remarkable players and that gives them a puncher's chance if they can clean up the mental mistakes/turnovers.
They did that last year too, didn't they?
Thing is, oddly, GS is only a pt better on offense this year over last and essentially the same on defense. But I think the difference is they can match output this year without as much effort, without needing a hot streak, because of Duran. Cleveland, on the other hand, has gotten six pts better on offense, BUT they've given up almost nine more pts. They need to play stronger in the paint, collect the offensive rbs they should get against GS. If they do that and play the averages on offense they can beat you.
I have them 4th, behind GS, Houston and Denver on offensive output.
How do you figure that anyway? GS gave up about what they did last year, 104 pts on average. Ten teams held opponents to fewer points than that.
It really feels a lot like last year. Everyone was saying that going in and not so much going out. I think GS should win. I thought they should have won last year and they have an easier time of it with Durant on board, but I can see the games best player and the two terrific players around him having a say in that. I always thought the Lakers were more talented than Bird's Celtics, but it didn't lead to a Laker domination of them head to head.
I hope it's a close, fun series no matter who wins it.
The Berean
Well-known member
I'm using "Defensive Rating" from the Pro Basketball Reference website which takes into account pace of play. You just can't use raw points per games allowed because different teams play at difference pace. Defensive Rating is points allowed per 100 possessions. The Spurs were #1 at 103.5 pts allowed/100 possessions. The Warriors were #2 at 104.0 pts allowed/100 possessions. The Cavs were #21 at 110.3 pts/100 possessions.
Click on the link and go down to the "Miscellaneous" section. Click on "DRtg" column and it will list the teams in numerical order.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2017.html#all_team-stats-per_game
One thing I love about these finals is that both teams are healthy. So when the Warriors blow out the Cavs in 5 games there will be no excuses.
Click on the link and go down to the "Miscellaneous" section. Click on "DRtg" column and it will list the teams in numerical order.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2017.html#all_team-stats-per_game
One thing I love about these finals is that both teams are healthy. So when the Warriors blow out the Cavs in 5 games there will be no excuses.
Hey, thanks for the link. Enjoy the series.I'm using "Defensive Rating" from the Pro Basketball Reference website which takes into account pace of play. You just can't use raw points per games allowed because different teams play at difference pace. Defensive Rating is points allowed per 100 possessions. The Spurs were #1 at 103.5 pts allowed/100 possessions. The Warriors were #2 at 104.0 pts allowed/100 possessions. The Cavs were #21 at 110.3 pts/100 possessions.
Click on the link and go down to the "Miscellaneous" section. Click on "DRtg" column and it will list the teams in numerical order.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2017.html#all_team-stats-per_game
One thing I love about these finals is that both teams are healthy. So when the Warriors blow out the Cavs in 5 games there will be no excuses.
I still hope it goes seven though. I don't get a lot of basketball since I cut the cord.
The Berean
Well-known member
The Warriors win game 2, 132-113. The Warriors made an NBA Finals record 18 three point shots.
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Terrific performances by Steph and Kevin. Cleveland did better in about every way I thought they could, but couldn't overcome the power of those two both having a great night. Irving needed to match the intensity and came up short again.
Game three is crucial for Cleveland. If they can't answer it's over.
Cavs win the next 4 games
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
:mock: Lebron
I have no doubt that they will win one of the next four, but...they just can't guard all the people they need to.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
I still hate the way Lebron's feet point outward, it makes his game unaesthetic....to me.
The Berean
Well-known member
If Kyrie Irving doesn't show up in this series this series will be over rather quickly.
It would be aesthetically pleasing, for me, to watch you go one on one half-court with him for your life savings.
:rotfl:
He seems rather one dimensional to me. A bunch of analysts talked about how much better Kyrie is than Steph based on the finals last year. People forget that Steph was injured last year. Kyrie is a great offensive basketball player, but I don't think he affects both ends of the floor.
The Berean
Well-known member
In a hypothetical match-up between the 1995-96 Chicago Bulls and this Warriors team Las Vegas odds makers would have the Warriors as a 6.5 point favorite on a neutral court.
http://www.mlive.com/sports/2017/06/oddsmakers_warriors_would_be_f.html
http://www.mlive.com/sports/2017/06/oddsmakers_warriors_would_be_f.html
In a hypothetical match-up between the 1995-96 Chicago Bulls and this Warriors team Las Vegas odds makers would have the Warriors as a 6.5 point favorite on a neutral court.
Sorry, but that's...crazy. These guys are comparatively soft, as is the league. Fun to watch, but they don't take that Bull's team. :nono:
It would be more fun to see them play Bird's 85-86 Celtics, or if you wanted a real up tempo, Magic's 86-87 Lakers.
They'd lose to them, too.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
It would be aesthetically pleasing, for me, to watch you go one on one half-court with him for your life savings.
:rotfl:
he looks clumsy, at times
I could beat him at HORSE.
Did you mean ON a horse?he looks clumsy, at times
I could beat him at HORSE.
lain: Remember the SNL skit they did where the guy had a long, mostly ash cigarette and he was obviously barely holding down the panic as he tried to defend himself against charges a-la 60 Minutes?
That's how I imagine you at the foul line, every penny you have on a tote board behind the glass. :chuckle:
The Berean
Well-known member
I've hear the soft label for so long but it really has no basis in reality. Yes, the game has been cleaned up but that doesn't make it soft. I never understood why clothes-lining a player as he drives to the hoop was even considered basketball? Can you imagine if Draymond Green was allowed to slap, elbow, mug, and clothes line players?
Now the question about this mythical match-up is what rules would they be playing under? That is a big factor. The Bulls team was built for their era. But they NEVER played a team that shot 3 pointers like the the Warriors. The Bulls defense was not designed to stop the 3 point shot. Also, the Bulls played a lot of players who were complete non-scorers like Dennis Rodman and Luc Longley.
Now if they played under 1996 rules how would the Warriors respond to the rougher play? That is a legitimate question. How would they deal with a rebounding machine like Rodman? On the the hand in 1996 the 3 point line was closer as well. Can imagine Steph and Klay with the 22 foot 3 point line? Scary thought.
The 6.5 point spread in favor of the Warriors does seem rather high, though. I'd thought the Bulls would be the slight favorites simply because of the Michael Jordan factor.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Did you mean ON a horse?
If his jumper was a little better, a little smoother, a little more consistent, he could be the best most complete player of all time. But it's mechanical.
And those feet pointing outward, I just can't watch him.
:think: There are two styles of play that appeal to me. I like the Barkley under the boards, Bird diving for the ball sort and the scary athletic Jordan approach. He's a tweener. I recognize his greatness and I'm glad he did what he did for Cleveland, but I've never been able to invest in him.
I liked the way Durant was early on in OKC and I like Steph, who reminds me of a super charged Reggie Miller, but I was spoiled by basketball early and nothing of late has lived up to it, pinball numbers notwithstanding.
My Celtics are a ghost in my memory and these days I root for a good game.
I miss Duncan's Spurs at their height. Boring for some. I loved it.