ECT Nang's Boastful Lie

[rocketman]

How did Satan get sin? Where did sin originate?

Choice

Satan made a choice...just as we make a choice. Unless you believe all that calvinist election rubbish

Sin is the self-standard of conduct. It's the "missing share or part" of not having and exhibiting God's standard of inner and outer conduct. Satan began to set his own standard for conduct rather than adhering to God's.

Satan is the father of lies. God's word is truth.

I probably shouldn't use a movie clip to analogize it but, it seems to me that it is all about choice in the end...Satan made a choice and that choice after being with God, knowing Him personally, Satan rejected via his own pride.

 

[Doom]

How did Satan get sin? Where did sin originate?

He opted for self-esteem, and became independent. He chose to see something in himself that he believed gave him the ability to act independently of his Creator.

 

[musterion]

If Satan was able to start doing that then why couldn't Adam and Eve have done it without his influence?

God did warn them about the Tree before Satan came on the scene...

 

[Right Divider]

No sin in Adam.

Satan already had sin, and brought it to be conceived in the heart of man by deceit.

Scripture says that Adam was not deceived. That "honor" goes to Eve.

1Ti 2:13-14 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. (14) And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
​

Adam willingly sinned.

 

[Jedidiah]

Here.

Call it another nature, a law, a principle, call it whatever you like. It - sin - is not merely a thing, separate from our flesh; it's part of who and what we are (were) in Adam. Paul delights after God's holy Law in his inward man - the new nature - but the old nature in his "members" wages unending war against it, and the battleground of that war is Paul's mind.

That sounds like to competing, enemy natures to me. But as I say, call it whatever you like. The remedy is the same in any case - the Cross.

And resurrection. New bodies.

 

[Jedidiah]

...If no other believer here will admit it, I will: when not walking by the Spirit, the conflict with the flesh is very much as of two minds within me, each in opposition to one another, warring with each other, pulling me in different directions. This conflict was unknown to me when I was unsaved...I knew (and indulged) sin; I knew how to calculate the risk/benefit ratios of breaking various laws; I came to know guilt and condemnation, and I definitely knew a violated, defiled, outraged conscience...but there was no "good vs evil" battling within me, vying for supremacy. All was darkness. And that darkness was me.

NOW, the flesh has an identifiably separate mind and will of its own; it can and does "think thoughts" in my head and NONE of them are EVER good (Rom 7:18)...NOW, those thoughts are "of me," but no longer truly "me." I can feel the difference between walking by the flesh and walking by the Spirit. The warfare waxes and ebbs but is so very tiresome; hence my eagerly awaiting the promised redemption, along with the rest of creation. That's why I agree with this statement:

So yes, the believer very much does have "two natures" within him or herself. Paul said so. If a professing Christian honestly knows nothing of this conflict, ever...well...

I think that Eph6:12 has bearing on this conflict though. We do not wrestle against flesh and blood. If you read that verse in terms of magnitude, dealing with flesh and blood is small potatoes and the big guns are principalities (literally prince-doms), powers, rulers of the darkness of this age, and spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. These are the persuaders, the rain-makers, the big kahunas. The devil and his minions.

 

[musterion]

And resurrection. New bodies.

Oh yes. And I can't wait.

 

[musterion]

I think that Eph6:12 has bearing on this conflict though. We do not wrestle against flesh and blood. If you read that verse in terms of magnitude, dealing with flesh and blood is small potatoes and the big guns are principalities (literally prince-doms), powers, rulers of the darkness of this age, and spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. These are the persuaders, the rain-makers, the big kahunas. The devil and his minions.

They're not causing most of the trouble inside me, though. That's ME that does that, all by himself...the old "me" who I actually no longer am but someday will be RID of.

 

[Jedidiah]

They're not causing most of the trouble inside me, though. That's ME that does that, all by himself...the old "me" who I actually no longer am but someday will be RID of.

You're declared dead. Legally. Paul teaches us to walk after the Spirit and we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. He does not say to wrestle against the flesh, the flesh and the Spirit war against each without any input from us, that's just logic playing itself out, mechanics. Walk after the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Walk after the Spirit and the flesh loses. If you fight it, you're right, you're fighting against your own self. You can't beat you. And Christ can.

 

[Doom]

You're declared dead. Legally. Paul teaches us to walk after the Spirit and we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. He does not say to wrestle against the flesh, the flesh and the Spirit war against each without any input from us, that's just logic playing itself out, mechanics. Walk after the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Walk after the Spirit and the flesh loses. If you fight it, you're right, you're fighting against your own self. You can't beat you. And Christ can.

The "lust (desire) of the flesh" is to be justified by works. Paul says that they (flesh and spirit) are in opposition to one another and you CAN'T do what you please Gal 5:17. It's the same thing he said in Romans 7. Walking after the Spirit is walking by faith in the finished work with no regard to the fact that the flesh is contrary.

 

[Jedidiah]

The "lust (desire) of the flesh" is to be justified by works. Paul says that they (flesh and spirit) are in opposition to one another and you CAN'T do what you please Gal 5:17. It's the same thing he said in Romans 7. Walking after the Spirit is walking by faith in the finished work with no regard to the fact that the flesh is contrary.

I disagree with you. The works of the flesh are evident.

 

[musterion]

You're declared dead. Legally. Paul teaches us to walk after the Spirit and we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. He does not say to wrestle against the flesh, the flesh and the Spirit war against each without any input from us, that's just logic playing itself out, mechanics. Walk after the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Walk after the Spirit and the flesh loses. If you fight it, you're right, you're fighting against your own self. You can't beat you. And Christ can.

All true. I'm just describing the struggle.

 

[musterion]

The "lust (desire) of the flesh" is to be justified by works. Paul says that they (flesh and spirit) are in opposition to one another and you CAN'T do what you please Gal 5:17. It's the same thing he said in Romans 7. Walking after the Spirit is walking by faith in the finished work with no regard to the fact that the flesh is contrary.

Also true!

 

[Doom]

​

I disagree with you.

Then you disagree with Paul

The works of the flesh are evident

The deeds of the flesh is different than the desire of the flesh. (It's okay almost everyone makes that same error). If you'll listen, you'll learn something here:

The letter to the galatians was written because they had been seduced into trying to perfect the flesh through the works of the Law, and we both know that by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

The desire of the flesh is to be justified by the works of the Law. If the Galatians were going to trust in the works of the Law to be justified, then all they would produce are the deeds of the flesh.

The Law reveals the sin that is in the flesh (you know this). When the Galatians seek justification by the works of the Law, the Law reveals all the deeds of the flesh. That is why Paul says to them that if they are going to walk according to the flesh (trusting in the works of the Law) then it will reveal all the deeds that are in their flesh.

 

[Jedidiah]

Then you disagree with Paul The deeds of the flesh is different than the desire of the flesh. (It's okay almost everyone makes that same error). If you'll listen, you'll learn something here:

The letter to the galatians was written because they had been seduced into trying to perfect the flesh through the works of the Law, and we both know that by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

The desire of the flesh is to be justified by the works of the Law. If the Galatians were going to trust in the works of the Law to be justified, then all they would produce are the deeds of the flesh.

The Law reveals the sin that is in the flesh (you know this). When the Galatians seek justification by the works of the Law, the Law reveals all the deeds of the flesh. That is why Paul says to them that if they are going to walk according to the flesh (trusting in the works of the Law) then it will reveal all the deeds that are in their flesh.

I think you're seeing subtlety while what Paul wrote is actually very apparent. The desire of the flesh is the desire to fulfill the lust of the flesh. "Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh," and, "The works of the flesh are evident." If you do not walk after the Spirit, or live according to the Spirit (Ro8:5), then you will see the deeds that are in your flesh. Meanwhile when you do walk in the Spirit, you are not under any law because you fulfill the law (Gal5:13-14), and against the fruits of the Spirit there is no law (Gal 5:22-23).

 

[Doom]

​

I think you're seeing subtlety while what Paul wrote is actually very apparent. The desire of the flesh is the desire to fulfill the lust of the flesh. "Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh," and, "The works of the flesh are evident." If you do not walk after the Spirit, or live according to the Spirit (Ro8:5), then you will see the deeds that are in your flesh. Meanwhile when you do walk in the Spirit, you are not under any law because you fulfill the law (Gal5:13-14), and against the fruits of the Spirit there is no law (Gal 5:22-23).

I'm sorry, but this is completely false and absolutely contradicts the rest of the letter. Think about it.

You know that Paul is writing this letter to correct a problem, and that problem is that the Galatians were seeking justification by the works of the Law

Galatians 2:16

"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified".

What you are attempting to do is get people to walk by the Spirit so that they will then stop doing the deeds of the flesh, so then they are made perfect in the flesh. That is no different than the same "other gospel" that Paul is opposing. God is not trying to perfect our flesh. he is wanting us to get it into our thick skulls that we are already complete in Christ, so that we walk by faith in the finished work of the cross and get our minds off of the flesh.

The desire of the flesh is the desire to fulfill the lust of the flesh.

Paul says no such thing, and that sentence makes no sense. Paul is talking about justification by works. The Galatians were attempting to be justified through the works of the Law, by perfecting the flesh. NO FLESH WILL BE JUSTIFIED BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW. You know this, and you know that this is what the letter is about. The flesh can never accomplish what only the Spirit can do. God makes us righteous, by giving us His Spirit. The flesh can never be made righteous, not even by the false teaching that the Spirit will give you the power to do the works of the Law.

 

[Jedidiah]

I'm sorry, but this is completely false and absolutely contradicts the rest of the letter. Think about it.

You know that Paul is writing this letter to correct a problem, and that problem is that the Galatians were seeking justification by the works of the Law

Galatians 2:16

What you are attempting to do is get people to walk by the Spirit so that they will then stop doing the deeds of the flesh, so then they are made perfect in the flesh. That is no different than the same "other gospel" that Paul is opposing. God is not trying to perfect our flesh. he is wanting us to get it into our thick skulls that we are already complete in Christ, so that we walk by faith in the finished work of the cross and get our minds off of the flesh.

Paul says no such thing, and that sentence makes no sense. Paul is talking about justification by works. The Galatians were attempting to be justified through the works of the Law, by perfecting the flesh. NO FLESH WILL BE JUSTIFIED BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW. You know this, and you know that this is what the letter is about. The flesh can never accomplish what only the Spirit can do. God makes us righteous, by giving us His Spirit. The flesh can never be made righteous, not even by the false teaching that the Spirit will give you the power to do the works of the Law.

Paul does say, "Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?" and he does mean by "being made perfect by the flesh," as you suggest, doing "the works of the law," which are, specifically, circumcision, which he mentions any number of times, along with those things in Gal4:10. These are the works of the law he's talking about. He says of his opponents, those spreading the leaven of the Pharisees and the leaven of the Sadducees (Gal5:9), preaching circumcision (Gal5:11), "I could wish that those who trouble you (preachers of circumcision) would even cut themselves off (castrate themselves completely) !" Gal5:12

Meanwhile he says of the whole matter, "In Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything (Gal2:16), but faith working through love (Gal5:14 and following)." Gal5:6

 

[Doom]

Paul does say, "Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?" and he does mean by "being made perfect by the flesh," as you suggest, doing "the works of the law," which are, specifically, circumcision, which he mentions any number of times, along with those things in Gal4:10. These are the works of the law he's talking about. He says of his opponents, those spreading the leaven of the Pharisees and the leaven of the Sadducees (Gal5:9), preaching circumcision (Gal5:11), "I could wish that those who trouble you (preachers of circumcision) would even cut themselves off (castrate themselves completely) !" Gal5:12

Meanwhile he says of the whole matter, "In Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything (Gal2:16), but faith working through love (Gal5:14 and following)." Gal5:6

I understand that Paul used circumcision as his arguing point, but the emphasis is the works of the Law. Circumcision was the main thing that the Galatians had been challenged to submit to, but any submission to the works of the Law to be justified would still produce the same result. Wouldn't you agree?

 

[Jedidiah]

I understand that Paul used circumcision as his arguing point, but the emphasis is the works of the Law. Circumcision was the main thing that the Galatians had been challenged to submit to, but any submission to the works of the Law to be justified would still produce the same result. Wouldn't you agree?

Yes, and I didn't mean to imply anything different. When Paul wrote, "Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh," he was talking to the Body of Christ. It wasn't for salvation. It was how to live in Christ, as a member of His Body.

 

[kmoney]

Satan made a choice...just as we make a choice. Unless you believe all that calvinist election rubbish

:shocked: Never!!