glorydaz
Well-known member
Those are "commands"?
And you claim Calvinists reject them?
These are things that make you go......:doh:
Mr. Religion's Religion
- Thread starter Robert Pate
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Those are "commands"?
And you claim Calvinists reject them?
These are things that make you go......:doh:
Epoisses
New member
Kind of like people who have been Christians for 40 years and can't even admit they are sinners saved by grace not 40 years of pew warming.
nikolai_42
Well-known member
Robert, AMR certainly has a different theology than you do. No one disputes that. But you never interact with what is being presented to you in any meaningful way. You simply resort to putting words in his mouth and then denouncing his view. The above is one example of that. The utter lunacy of saying that AMR doesn't believe that Jesus is Lord is evidence that you are not being honest with "the other side". Maybe you simply can't understand his arguments - but casting around anathemas is not good fruit. What you have said simply isn't true. But did't Matthew record Jesus saying something about that :
Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Matthew 5:10-11
{See how that works?}
You are apparently in the same boat as Mr. Religion, the Calvinist boat.
Calvinism is a denial of the "Historical Gospel" of Jesus Christ and justification by faith. The foundation of the Gospel is that Jesus has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil and in doing so has reconciled us and the world unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18, 19. If you don't believe that you have no right to call yourself a Christian. If you do believe that, then you will profess that Calvinism is nothing more than a false, worthless doctrine and religion.
nikolai_42
Well-known member
You, then, must be a universalist. Paul also says immediately after those 2 verses :
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
2 Cor 5:20
In other words, not all are reconciled. But Paul calls men to be reconciled to God. The way you understand it, one can only be biblically consistent if one believes universalism.
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Romans 5:10
glorydaz
Well-known member
If you're somehow arguing that statement applies to me, you're even more of an idiot than I first thought. :think:
You apparently don't understand the Gospel, or you understand it but reject it.
In the Gospel, as the scripture says, God has reconciled the WHOLE WORLD unto himself by Jesus Christ. All have been reconciled, HOWEVER, not all want to be reconciled unto God by Jesus Christ, these are the lost that have rejected God's great free gift of salvation that has been provided by Jesus Christ, Ephesians 2:8. This has nothing to do with universalism, but has everything to with free will, which you probably reject.
nikolai_42
Well-known member
You are contradicting the plain words of scripture, Robert. Paul's command to be reconciled is to those who are not reconciled. The reconciliation he spoke of as being to the world, therefore, is non-specific. But you want to make it as broad as possible. Thus, universalism.
You apparently do not have the Holy Spirit who is the teacher of truth, John 16:13.
Either that, or you cannot read. The scripture plainly says..."God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself" 2 Corinthians 5:18.
The world has ALREADY been reconciled unto God by Jesus Christ. As far as God is concerned sin, death and the devil have been defeated and Jesus is Lord. If you are not able to receive this wonderful truth it is probably because you are not a Christian.
False Prophet
New member
What was the first "true" religion?
Mr Religion's is the first true religion.
He told me I was the "Other" Ugh !!!!!!!!!!!!
Mr Religion's is the first true religion.
He told me I was the "Other" Ugh !!!!!!!!!!!!
False Prophet
New member
What if God Announced on the News 'There is only one true religion, and it's not yours"?
That is not going to happen. My doctrine is true because it is based upon the work and the person of Jesus Christ. It honors God and glorifies his Son Jesus Christ.
nikolai_42
Well-known member
"Has reconciled" or "is reconciling"? "The world" or "the whole world"? You've said two different things in your last 2 posts, Robert.
God has ALREADY reconciled us and the world unto himself by Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:19.
God sees ALL THINGS in his Son Jesus Christ, Colossians 1:20-22.
As far as God is concerned sin, death and the devil have been defeated and Jesus now sits in heaven as... "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16.
nikolai_42
Well-known member
What is so hard for me to fathom is that you are simply overlooking that in both of those passages, the implication is clear that not everyone actually IS reconciled to God. Both 2 Cor 5:20 and Col 1:21 make it plain that not all are reconciled. That the alienation is by being slaves to sin and haters of God. The reconciliation clearly is not universal else everyone would be reconciled to God (and Paul would not have to implore men to be so reconciled).
glorydaz
Well-known member
Romans 4:17
(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Epoisses
New member
The whole word has been reconciled to God in the person of Jesus Christ.
The whole world has not been reconciled to God in our individual lives.
The objective gospel (cross) was a complete success but the subjective gospel (individual) is an ongoing battle where Christ fights for control of our heart via the Holy Spirit with mixed success.
False Prophet
New member
The days will come when they will not endure sound doctrine. In vain do these people worship me teaching the doctrines and traditions of men.
Look at those pictures of the bottom of his page. That is who he is listening to. They do not do the word of God. They gather around the doctrines and traditions of men. That is religion so hence: mr religion.
[3] If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
[4] He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
[5] Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. 1 tim 6
Look at those pictures of the bottom of his page. That is who he is listening to. They do not do the word of God. They gather around the doctrines and traditions of men. That is religion so hence: mr religion.
[3] If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
[4] He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
[5] Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. 1 tim 6
glorydaz
Well-known member
Hmmm.... sounds about right. Reconciliation is always a two party process...until the end.
Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
2 Corinthians 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
Col. 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. 21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: 23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
2 Corinthians 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
Col. 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. 21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: 23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
God provides the reconciliation through Jesus Christ, but nothing is ours until it is received by faith. Salvation is available to everyone. God stands before humanity with open arms. Why do you support Calvinism if you believe this?
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