Mr. Religion and His Calvinistic Nonsense

[Nihilo]

We do not need all that anymore because the foundation is laid and we have access to the written words of Jesus Christ.

Completely and totally made up, by someone, like a dog, scratching their own itching ears (2Ti4:3KJV), with made up fables (2Ti 4:4KJV).

Your Catholic church is nothing like the churches in the New Testament, so I don't get how you think your denomination is so like the ones in the beginning just because you call someone 'Bishop'.

The Catholic Church is exactly like the Church in the New Testament, because it is the same Church.

 

[Eagles Wings]

I am only following Paul when he tells us to do this:

"Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables" (2 Tim.4:2-4).​

What Mr. religion says here perverts the teachings in regard to the gospel:



This is garbage and Mr. Religion needs to be called out.

You call this thread a typical garbage call out thread. I gave Mr. Religion more than one chance to defend that teaching on another thread but he refused to even attempt to defend what he said. With Paul's instruction at 2 Peter 4:1-2 in view I feel that I am obligated to call him out.

Or should I be politically correct and just ignore what he said even though there may be some reading his words on this forum who will actually believe them?

Have you considered that he may not have seen your question? Have a little patience, or pm him to get his attention.

 

[God's Truth]

Have you considered that he may not have seen your question? Have a little patience, or pm him to get his attention.

AMR often does not respond to posts that are specifically to him.

 

[God's Truth]

Completely and totally made up, by someone, like a dog, scratching their own itching ears (2Ti4:3KJV), with made up fables (2Ti 4:4KJV).
The Catholic Church is exactly like the Church in the New Testament, because it is the same Church.

No way.

 

[john w]

The Scripture backs the bishops. So where there are bona fide bishops, there is bona fide Christian teaching.

Slower...Pay attention..

"Infallible when the popes teach from the chair, ex cathedra, and when all the bishops teach what they all agree on, along with the popes' agreement, when he teaches officially; then and only then is it infallible and is the charism employed which preserves the pope from teaching error, in matters of faith, doctrine and morals."-just made up by the religious prostitute, AKA, the Roman Catholic Organization-no scriptural backing-NADA.

Also, the Church teaches that anybody whose faith is a burning fire within them, should, rightly and with abandon, try to be a Saint.

I am part of "the Church"-show me where I, other members of the boc/the Church, on TOL, ever taught:

"that anybody whose faith is a burning fire within them, should, rightly and with abandon, try to be a Saint."

And there is no such thing as "try to be a Saint"-no scripture teaches that. You/the RCO made it up.

 

[God's Truth]

You're a "WORKER" not a "FAITHER."

I am both.

 

[Samie]

We are not back to square one unless we are somehow able to trick our minds into believing that the gospel, which comes in power and in the Holy Spirit (1 Thess.1:5), is incapable of giving life to those who are dead in sin. Paul said the following but you deny that "power":

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth" (Ro.1:16).​

The life that the gospel with the HS can give is only found in Christ. Unless one is in Christ Who is our life, he remains dead.

According to you, the gospel and the Holy Spirit which accompanies it, are impotent to save anyone. According to your mistaken beliefs a person is saved before they believe:

There is only ONE Savior. No other name under heaven...; have you forgotten Acts 4:12? And people are born in Christ, all by God's grace.

The sad thing is the fact that you are unable to even understand that what you say is contradicted by the Scriptures. The reason why you cannot see that is because your final authority is Calvinism and not the Scriptures.

You cannot even differentiate my beliefs from Calvinism.

What prevents you from believing that people are born in Christ and hence born already saved? Being in Christ, they can believe and overcome the evil of unbelief. Being overcomers, Christ will not blot out their names from the book of life, and they will be saved for eternity. But if they refuse to believe, then their names will be blotted out and will have their portion in the lake of fire.

Again, your false gospel teaches that if one is not saved, he can NEVER be saved.

Here, refute this:

According to you, PRIOR to believing, one is not saved. So, if one is NOT saved, he is NOT in Christ Who is our life. If one is not in Christ, he is spiritually dead. If one is spiritually dead, he cannot hear spiritual things. If he cannot hear then he cannot have faith. If he cannot have faith, he cannot believe. If one cannot believe then he cannot be saved according to your false gospel.

Hence according to your false gospel, one not saved remains not saved, forever.​

And this one:

According to you, PRIOR to believing, one is not saved. So, if one is NOT saved, he is NOT in Christ. If one is not in Christ, he cannot bear fruit. If he cannot bear fruit, he cannot have faith, because faith is fruit of the Spirit. If he cannot have faith, then he cannot believe. If he cannot believe, he cannot be saved according to your false gospel.

Hence according to your false gospel, one not saved remains not saved, forever.​

Try harder, next time, Jerry.

 

[God's Truth]

How are you going to follow this commandment of His?:

"Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not" (Mt.23:1-3).​

The earthly temple is destroyed.

Wisdom, even common sense is from God.

Tell me how is it you do not see that you cannot obey that?

You must search for God to find Him.

Searching for Jesus' teachings is how we search for God.

Obeying Jesus' commands is how we find Him.

So tell me how reasonable is it for you to say to me what you did?

Are you paralyzed and have to obey Jesus when he says stand up, pick up your mat and walk?

Search for all of Jesus teachings and obey what you are supposed to obey and THEN you will get understanding.

GOD says to obey everything He says.

Tell me, why do you argue against God and say such nonsense?

God is the one who says to obey everything He says.

 

[Crucible]

What a mess....Father, must I get into the ditch with him? Very well....According to your will....


1. The above is your errant assertion. No, perverter of the gospel of Christ, a saint is who you are, not what you do, Calvinist Catholic, being united in Christ, and Christ in us.

An atheist, JW, Mormon....can "persevere" in good works, show "evidence", and "seek God"/"god"," lost one. And?

See how that works, Cliff?


Translated: Whenever one qualifies there "argument" with "Quite frankly...Honestly...To tell you the truth...Can I be honest with you?.............," it means they are not being "frank...honest...truthful" with you.


Please teach us another filler/cliche....Please?



2. One more time...

http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?80996-Knight-s-pick-03-03-2012

James states very assertively that a faith without works is a dead faith. It is not a directive, it is a fact.

You just have a skewed view, is all. It's what happens when you ignore half the New Testament.

 

[God's Truth]

Matthew 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Philippians 2:12 [ Do Everything Without Grumbling ] Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,

Colossians 3:20 Children, obey your parents in everything, for this pleases the Lord.

Colossians 3:22 Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to curry their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord.

John 14:23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

Matthew 4:4 Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'"



God says to obey everything that He says, yet you have people here who argue nonsense and claim that it is wrong to say that because why?! What kind of argument against my saying to obey everything Jesus says is that?

I can hardly believe that people go against me for saying to obey everything Jesus commands.

Do you know that we are told to SEARCH for God?

How are you searching?

How are you finding Him?

Nowhere in the Bible is anyone ever ridiculed for saying obey God in all ways, but only here.

Now tell me how you search for God.

 

[God's Truth]

John 4:16 He told her, "Go, call your husband and come back."


Jesus commanded that to the woman at the well.

I tell people to obey everything that Jesus says and they go against me for that.

Are you a woman?

Do you have a husband or a man that you are living with?

No?

Okay then, I do NOT have to obey everything Jesus says and you should not tell me to.

WHAT is WRONG with you people?

 

[john w]

James states very assertively that a faith without works is a dead faith. It is not a directive, it is a fact.

You just have a skewed view, is all. It's what happens when you ignore half the New Testament.

Well, "all scripture is about me, written specifically to me, for my obedience" drone....

1. And scripture states very assertively that:

-sell all you have
go to Jerusalem 3 times a year to observe "the appointed times"
-show yourself to a Levitical priest, and offer the gift Moses commanded
-keep the law
-tell no one that Jesus is the Christ
-raise the dead, make the blind see, pick up poisonous snakes, make the lame walk


Do it.

2. And scripture, in Leviticus 11 KJV states very assertively that you must adhere to this dietary restriction:

1 And the Lord spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying unto them,

2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, These are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth.

3 Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted, and cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat.

4 Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.

5 And the coney, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.

6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.

7 And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.

8 Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.

9 These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.

10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:

11 They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.

12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

13 And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,

14 And the vulture, and the kite after his kind;

15 Every raven after his kind;

16 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,

17 And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,

18 And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle,

19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.

20 All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you.

21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon all four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth;

22 Even these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind.

23 But all other flying creeping things, which have four feet, shall be an abomination unto you.

24 And for these ye shall be unclean: whosoever toucheth the carcase of them shall be unclean until the even.

25 And whosoever beareth ought of the carcase of them shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even.

26 The carcases of every beast which divideth the hoof, and is not clovenfooted, nor cheweth the cud, are unclean unto you: every one that toucheth them shall be unclean.

27 And whatsoever goeth upon his paws, among all manner of beasts that go on all four, those are unclean unto you: whoso toucheth their carcase shall be unclean until the even.

28 And he that beareth the carcase of them shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even: they are unclean unto you.

29 These also shall be unclean unto you among the creeping things that creep upon the earth; the weasel, and the mouse, and the tortoise after his kind,

30 And the ferret, and the chameleon, and the lizard, and the snail, and the mole.

31 These are unclean to you among all that creep: whosoever doth touch them, when they be dead, shall be unclean until the even.

32 And upon whatsoever any of them, when they are dead, doth fall, it shall be unclean; whether it be any vessel of wood, or raiment, or skin, or sack, whatsoever vessel it be, wherein any work is done, it must be put into water, and it shall be unclean until the even; so it shall be cleansed.

33 And every earthen vessel, whereinto any of them falleth, whatsoever is in it shall be unclean; and ye shall break it.

34 Of all meat which may be eaten, that on which such water cometh shall be unclean: and all drink that may be drunk in every such vessel shall be unclean.

35 And every thing whereupon any part of their carcase falleth shall be unclean; whether it be oven, or ranges for pots, they shall be broken down: for they are unclean and shall be unclean unto you.

36 Nevertheless a fountain or pit, wherein there is plenty of water, shall be clean: but that which toucheth their carcase shall be unclean.

37 And if any part of their carcase fall upon any sowing seed which is to be sown, it shall be clean.

38 But if any water be put upon the seed, and any part of their carcase fall thereon, it shall be unclean unto you.

39 And if any beast, of which ye may eat, die; he that toucheth the carcase thereof shall be unclean until the even.

40 And he that eateth of the carcase of it shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even: he also that beareth the carcase of it shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even.

41 And every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth shall be an abomination; it shall not be eaten.

42 Whatsoever goeth upon the belly, and whatsoever goeth upon all four, or whatsoever hath more feet among all creeping things that creep upon the earth, them ye shall not eat; for they are an abomination.

43 Ye shall not make yourselves abominable with any creeping thing that creepeth, neither shall ye make yourselves unclean with them, that ye should be defiled thereby.

44 For I am the Lord your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

45 For I am the Lord that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.

46 This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth:

47 To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.



Do it-no more McDonald's, Burger Doodle, for you, Cliff.


Fraud.

you ignore half the New Testament.

Are you including Matthew through John, as part of this "New Testament" you reference? Yes? Let's see how much of it you ignore, shall we Calvinist deceiver? Ready?

I thought so-wicked scam artist.

 

[Crucible]

Well, "all scripture is about me, written specifically to me, for my obedience" drone....

1. And scripture states very assertively that:

-sell all you have
go to Jerusalem 3 times a year to observe "the appointed times"
-show yourself to a Levitical priest, and offer the gift Moses commanded
-keep the law
-tell no one that Jesus is the Christ
-raise the dead, make the blind see, pick up poisonous snakes, make the lame walk

Those are directives.

James isn't stating a directive when he says a faith without works is a dead faith. He's stating a fact.

 

[john w]

Those are directives.

James isn't stating a directive when he says a faith without works is a dead faith. He's stating a fact.

Sophistry..deception.....Observe, the deception..

You assert that I/others:

-ignore half the New Testament
-chop the bible


You deceiving drone.

And scripture states very assertively that:

-sell all you have
go to Jerusalem 3 times a year to observe "the appointed times"
-show yourself to a Levitical priest, and offer the gift Moses commanded
-keep the law
-tell no one that Jesus is the Christ
-raise the dead, make the blind see, pick up poisonous snakes, make the lame walk


These are facts. Do it, or admit that you are a whited wall, hypocrite,with your "ignore...bible chopping" satanic accusation.


Go ahead, punk. Tell everyone that you do not "ignore" certain commands, that are "facts," of the book, and that you do not "bible chop," divide it.


Go ahead.

 

[God's Truth]

Those are directives.

James isn't stating a directive when he says a faith without works is a dead faith. He's stating a fact.

The Catholic church does NOT obey.

Calvinists do not obey they do not believe and teach the truth.

 

[john w]

Those are directives.

James isn't stating a directive when he says a faith without works is a dead faith. He's stating a fact.

Leviticus dietary restrictions are "facts."

Observe them.


Bible ignorer, chopper.


See how that works, Cliff?

James 1 KJV

James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

From which tribe are you, Cliff? Give us this "fact."

 

[Eagles Wings]

AMR often does not respond to posts that are specifically to him.

He has provided ample explanations over the years. We all have private lives to live.

 

[Eagles Wings]

I'm not sure what all AMR said since you didn't link to the thread, but based on the quote, I would have to say I find myself more in agreement with the foundations he is upon than where you seem to be coming from...

John said this of his gospel and its account of the Lord's works :

And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
John 20:30-31

Would one who reads this be able to come to it and have no abiding faith and just decide to believe all the miracles that were described in the bible (or limit it just to John's gospel for the sake of context)? Would someone who doesn't believe what he reads simply come to it and be expected to work up belief so that he does believe what he reads (and is thereby saved)? Or, rather, is the Word of God itself the active agent in producing belief (or revealing the belief that is already there)? Either way, the command to believe is not something the natural man can work up. He either does or he doesn't believe. The Lord may open a man's eyes but it is still the work of God to do so.

John's gospel records Jesus saying this to the Jews :

Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
John 10:24-28

The very verse brought up (somewhere in this thread) to address assurance is here seen in the context of Jesus saying that the unbelieving Jews didn't believe because they were not of His sheep. Not the other way around.

So in terms of Paul's statement to the jailer, the question "do you believe?" may not have been the appropriate phrase for Paul since faith is commanded. And if God commands, He provides. So to be consistent with Jesus' words to the Jews, it seems to me that Paul's command to the jailer was simply one of bringing the Word of God to bear on the man. Not placing the burden of coming up with faith upon him.

Your quote of Romans 1:16 certainly seems to have a cause and effect implied - but what is the real foundation?

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Romans 10:16-17

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. The Word of God is the foundational, active agent in it all. Whether it is actually there at a man's birth or whether it is given by God upon the hearing of His Word, the critical point here is that it all rests on something God does. That is where the confidence lies - not in the ability or work of man to effectuate what God has desired.

Remember what you have quoted...

...faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Hebrews 11:1

...and remember what Jesus said of the Holy Spirit :

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 14:16-17

Faith is a precondition for receiving. You may think that I am agreeing with you - but remember (again) that Jesus said the Jews did not believe because they were not of His sheep.

The only way I know to properly interpret all this is to recognize that faith is a work of God. That the work of God is to bring a man to see and understand the Truth. Otherwise, shouldn't miracles have cause men to believe?

But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:
That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.
John 12:37-41

And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.
Matthew 13:58

Was Jesus limited by man's unbelief or was He responding to their existing state (and not trying to change it)? If Jesus was limited by man's unbelief, then let's all name it and claim it...

So while I may appear to partly agree with your take, that approach places the onus on man to believe. Rather, it is either that a man already believes - or the Spirit of God produces faith in that man as he hears the Word. Either way, God's work in salvation is magnified rather than man's work.

Bump for an excellent post.

 

[Crucible]

Conflating directives and facts is probably the most common error in biblical interpretation.
[MENTION=1851]john w[/MENTION] excels in that error :chuckle:

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Leviticus dietary restrictions are "facts."

Observe them.


Bible ignorer, chopper.


See how that works, Cliff?

James 1 KJV

James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

From which tribe are you, Cliff? Give us this "fact."

Yeah, Sonny, I'd like to know which "Tribe" he's from, as well? I've been curious about that for awhile.