Lon
Well-known member
* Lon, the preist [priest]class [:idunno:] made an idol out of the Bible books that they wrote (all religions do) you can't think outside of your particular interpretation of their box. You are every bit as guilty of the fetish making tendency you are falsely accusing me of.
:nono: When I struggled with those passages it was to be fit into His mold rather than trying to fit Him into mine. There is a tendency not to listen, but again, this is like the Samaritan problem "you worship what you don't know."
:nono: Again, this is you conforming God to you, rather than you conforming to God. I'll even go further: If God hasn't given clear instructions on how to get out of this mess, then you and I are stuck and it doesn't matter what we read after that. We fall short of His glory.I don't fault you for your sincere faith, which you likly know is a gift from God, just this theory that human writings are divine and perfect.
So, unless He really did give us an exclusive book, penned as authors were moved along, God-breathed, and inspired, then you and I have nothing. You are happy then with man's attempts to reach God and don't seem to care if you fall short. I am convinced 1) God has to find me, or I'm lost and 2) I have to accept directions, whether I agree with them or not, to get out of this mess. Therefore, I believe the Bible is inspired for internal and external reasons. This is an impasse. A line indelibly drawn. TOL must necessarily draw it.
Let me rephrase: I don't believe you love 'my' God nor choose to follow Him. I believe we have, necessarily, separate ideas of who He is.* I don't belive that you really think that I hate God any more than you truly believe that Hillary Clinton wiped her computer of personal, recipe swapping Emails to free up a little spce! You are using a flavor of quibleing legalisms like the enemies of Jesus did to technically, falsely accuse me of hating God simply because I don't trust the writings of the preistly elite who were capable of killing the Son of God.
At one time, I might have 'liked' your god, but I see 'him' as an offense now because 1) he is you, not really a god, but a god consciousness that is pantheism (god in all things). We don't need to go on and on about this because there is nothing to gain but express the extremes here. Our gods are two different beings. I have to be molded by Him, to fit His image.
EVERYTHING I've read from it is problematic and contains errors. EVERY time I've quoted it, I've had to correct it or ridicule the 3rd grader who wrote it. After about 5 different passages, and this will make 6 or so, it truly is representative of all. NOT only that, you and I both agreed it is against Christianity. As such, YOU already told me what I would think about it. No Christian, disagreeing with you, and ESPECIALLY after I've read enough passages to get a sample of goofy and error, needs to read your book, Caino. There is no need, no desire. I'm going to correct this Ub quote within the spoiler. Don't look if it you don't want to see.* Two notable discourses that Jesus gave in the UB will address your misunderstanding about the UB way being and easier softer, no conversion needed way. You could not be any more wrong......but you haven't really read the book so????
*
Spoiler
[URL]http://www.urantia.org/urantia-book-standardized/paper-155-fleeing-through-northern-galilee?term=discourse#search-jump-result-0[[/URL]
(1729.2) 155:5.7 And then the Master, in his hour of teaching, went on to make clear these truths:
(1729.3) 155:5.8 Until the races become highly intelligent
[ lain: :nono: "Highly Intelligent" is me and I am not 'Highly Intelligent" enough.]
and more fully civilized, there will persist many of those childlike and superstitious ceremonies which are so characteristic of the evolutionary religious practices of primitive and backward peoples. [this is just elitism by the guy that wrote this, as if we are somehow smarter than the earlier races :nono:] Until the human race progresses to the level of a higher and more general recognition of the realities of spiritual experience, large numbers of men and women will continue to show a personal preference for those religions of authority which require only intellectual assent, in contrast to the religion of the spirit, which entails active participation of mind and soul in the faith adventure of grappling with the rigorous realities of progressive human experience. [This guy might as well have been a Samaritan back in 33AD because he is advocating 'spirit' without 'truth' AND like you, rejecting dogma to create his own dogma against his rejection]
(1729.4) 155:5.9 The acceptance of the traditional religions of authority presents the easy way out for man’s urge to seek satisfaction for the longings of his spiritual nature.
[THIS is supposedly Jesus? Who told the Samaritan woman "Salvation is of the Jews" and "You worship what you don't know, but we Jews worship what we do know"?? :nono:]
The settled, crystallized, and established religions of authority afford a ready refuge to which the distracted and distraught soul of man may flee when harassed by fear and tormented by uncertainty. Such a religion requires of its devotees, as the price to be paid for its satisfactions and assurances, only a passive and purely intellectual assent. [:nono:]
(1729.5) 155:5.10 And for a long time there will live on earth those timid, fearful, and hesitant individuals who will prefer thus to secure their religious consolations, even though, in so casting their lot with the religions of authority, they compromise the sovereignty of personality, [See? "Self" as god]debase the dignity of self-respect, ["Self" as god ]and utterly surrender the right to participate in that most thrilling and inspiring of all possible human experiences["human/self" as god]: the personal ["self" as god]quest for truth, [:nono: Truth isn't personal, this is a Samaritan worrying about 'experience and 'where' to worship, rather than 'who' and 'how']the exhilaration of facing the perils of intellectual discovery, ["self..."]the determination to explore the realities of personal [again "personal" = "self" as god] religious experience, the supreme satisfaction of experiencing the personal ["self" ]triumph of the actual realization of the victory of spiritual faith over intellectual doubt as it is honestly won in the supreme adventure of all human existence — man seeking God, for[in] himself and as himself[Bingo!], and finding him[self This 'jesus' is congratulating you on your narcissism ]
(1729.6) 155:5.11 The religion of the spirit means effort, struggle, conflict, faith, determination, love, loyalty, and progress [:nono: Christ in you, the Hope of Glory is the 'Spiritual'] The religion of the mind — the theology of authority — requires little or none of these exertions from its formal believers. [Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all the Heart and with all thy Soul and with all thy MIND and with all thy Strength" Oops! Bye Bye Urantia :wave:]Tradition is a safe refuge and an easy path for those fearful and halfhearted souls who instinctively shun the spirit struggles and mental uncertainties associated with those faith voyages of daring adventure out upon the high seas of unexplored truth in search for the farther shores of spiritual realities as they may be discovered by the progressive human mind and experienced by the evolving human soul. UB 1955 [This is just Eastern Mysticism and the Hindu Religion dressed up for the 1950's. It is a
terribly written run-on sentence. The Pharisees sometimes were confronted with man-made traditions, but Jesus NEVER corrected the OT and he called them scriptures. That puts a large hole in the Urantia tires- all four of them]
Spoiler
For Lon in answer to misunderstanding. This is one of the fundamental reasons that the authorities of Judaism hated Jesus so bitterly [:nono: it is why I know it isn't true]:
(1729.7) 155:5.12 And Jesus went on to say: “At Jerusalem the religious leaders have formulated the various doctrines of their traditional teachers and the prophets of other days into an established system of intellectual beliefs, [which you have ▲quoted Jesus▲ as saying is bad-remember that in a moment]a religion of authority. The appeal of all such religions is largely to the mind[:nono: this is Samaritan-type of cult theology again - "Thou shalt love the Lord they God, with all they Heart, Soul, MIND, and Strength"]And now are we about to enter upon a deadly conflict with such a religion since we will so shortly begin the bold proclamation of a new religion — a religion which is not a religion in the present-day meaning of that word, a religion that makes its chief appeal to the divine spirit of my Father which resides in the mind of man[:doh: the mind that this guys just said Jesus said was not good, and previously said was a religion of 'spirit' This guy writes terribly]a religion which shall derive its authority from the fruits of its acceptance [because it is accepted it has authority???]that will so certainly appear in the personal [self as god]experience of all who really and truly become believers in the truths of this higher spiritual communion.”
(1730.1) 155:5.13 Pointing out each of the twenty-four and calling them by name, Jesus said: “And now, which one of you would prefer to take this easy path of conformity to an established and fossilized religion, as defended by the Pharisees at Jerusalem[:nono: Jesus never would say this. First of all, He is God and said those Words of the Old Testament and Second, He said He came to fulfill the law, not abolish it and Third, that Heaven and Earth would pass away, but not His Words], rather than to suffer the difficulties and persecutions attendant upon the mission of proclaiming a better way of salvation to men while you realize the satisfaction of discovering for yourselves the beauties of the realities of a living and personal [self as god]experience in the eternal truths and supreme grandeurs of the kingdom of heaven? Are you fearful, soft, and ease-seeking? Are you afraid to trust your future in the hands of the God of truth, whose sons you are? Are you distrustful of the Father, whose children you are? Will you go back to the easy path of the certainty and intellectual settledness of the religion of traditional authority, or will you gird yourselves to go forward with me into that uncertain and troublous future of proclaiming the new truths of the religion of the spirit, the kingdom of heaven in the hearts of men?”[Not only is this horrible theology against Jesus, it is a terrible run-on sentence!]
(1730.2) 155:5.14 All twenty-four of his hearers rose to their feet, intending to signify their united and loyal response to this, one of the few emotional appeals [emotional appeals? :doh:]which Jesus ever made to them, but he raised his hand and stopped them, saying: “Go now apart by yourselves, each man alone with the Father, and there find the unemotional [:doh: An emotional appeal that asks for an 'unemotional' response??? :doh: Caino, how can you even buy this stuff??? It is childish!]answer to my question, and having found such a true and sincere attitude of soul, speak that answer freely and boldly to my Father and your Father, whose infinite life of love is the very spirit of the religion we proclaim.”[Which goes back to the Beatles- "All You Need Is Love" and an emotional appeal for an unemotional response that is emotional :dizzy: Caino, you might as well add all of Joseph Smith's writing to this as well. It is a repeat of exactly the same sentiment: "Be your own god."]
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