turbosixx
New member
Correct me if I'm wrong. They were first water baptized into John's baptism. Then Paul baptizes (water) them in the name of Jesus then he lays hands on them and that is when they receive the Holy Spirit. Is that how you see it?
ECT Moment of Salvation Compared to Water Baptism
- Thread starter turbosixx
- Start date
Correct me if I'm wrong. They were first water baptized into John's baptism. Then Paul baptizes (water) them in the name of Jesus then he lays hands on them and that is when they receive the Holy Spirit. Is that how you see it?
turbosixx
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How do we die with Christ?
God's Truth
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Why are you having such a hard time with this? It was a major happening that the Gentiles could be included in salvation. Peter commanded that they be water baptized because they were saved and water baptism is commanded by God.
I don’t belong to a denomination.
The Bible does say it.
Hebrews 2:4 God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.
Acts 14:3 So Paul and Barnabas spent considerable time there, speaking boldly for the Lord, who confirmed the message of his grace by enabling them to perform signs and wonders.
Do you not know?
God's Truth
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Jesus saves those he accepts. He knows everyone's heart. Jesus tells us who he saves; he saves those who believe and obey him.
God's Truth
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Where does it say water? They were already baptized with water. I believe Paul said he baptizes them in the name of Jesus and then he laid his hands on them and then they received the Holy Spirit.
God's Truth
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When you repent of your sins and live to please Jesus.
turbosixx
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It was a major happening, that's why it's a special situation. If your sticking with it's commanded by God, why wasn't anyone else commanded to other than in this major happening?
What is the name your group goes by?
The bible doesn't say it here either. Those are talking about the message. I agree, the Holy Spirit confirmed the message but not that anyone was saved. Where does the bible say that?
turbosixx
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That is how we die with Christ? You have a scripture to support that claim?
God's Truth
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They were ALREADY SAVED.
I call myself a Christian, and a follower of the Way.
Of course the gift of speaking in tongues was for a sign that the Gentiles were saved by the Word of God.
We can see from the scriptures that speaking in tongues was prophesied about in the Old Testament, that the Lord would speak to the Jews, as stated in Isaiah 28. In the New Testament, we can see that this is a fulfilled prophecy, as confirmed by Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 14:21. The biblical speaking in tongues were for a sign to the Jews. See the following passage how God poured out the gift of the Holy Spirit even on the Gentiles, as was evident by the Gentiles speaking in tongues and praising God. .Acts 10:44While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. 46For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.
God's Truth
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Romans 6:2
By no means! How can we who died to sin live in it any longer?
Romans 6: 11In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 14For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.
Romans 6:6
We know that our old self was crucified with Him so that the body of sin might be rendered powerless, that we should no longer be slaves to sin.
Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Galatians 5:16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
Galatians 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave
Colossians 2:20
If you have died with Christ to the spiritual forces of the world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its regulations:
Colossians 3:3
For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.
1 Peter 2:24
He Himself bore our sins in His body on the tree, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. "By His stripes you are healed."
Luke 13:3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.
Acts 3:19 Therefore repent and turn back so that your sins may be wiped out,
1 Thessalonians 4:1 As for other matters, brothers and sisters, we instructed you how to live in order to please God, as in fact you are living. Now we ask you and urge you in the Lord Jesus to do this more and more.
turbosixx
New member
I agree with all you have said. In this special situation, God confirmed to the Jews that the gospel includes the Gentiles.
Acts 11:17 If then God gave the same gift to them as he gave to us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God's way?” 18 When they heard these things they fell silent. And they glorified God, saying, “Then to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life.”
Peter received the vision but he was not the only one that needed convincing. Other than the initial out pouring of the Holy Spirit on the apostles, this is the only time God did the baptizing with the Holy Spirit.
God's Truth
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Peter was already breaking the law by being in their house, and he could have water baptized them first. Cornelius and his whole household being saved proves a person can be saved before a water baptism.
When one is saved they are baptized with the Holy Spirit. It means that Jesus is living in your heart.
turbosixx
New member
I agree all those verses are important but I asked how do we die with Christ. Those verses to do not tell us how. I love how you skipped over the verses that tells us how we die with Christ.
Rom. 6:3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.
God's Truth
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I gave many scriptures that show HOW we die to Christ.
Water baptism is just a symbol, a ceremony where the promise, the pledge is made to God.
A person must first repent of their sins and live to please Jesus.
You claiming a real death happens when one goes under the water is wrong.
A person must repent BEFORE going under the water. They must die to sins and that is WHY they are getting baptized, and to please the Lord.
turbosixx
New member
He was not breaking the law because the law was nailed to the cross. Peter wasn't going to baptize them. Look what he says.
47 “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”
If this wasn't a special situation where God is proving to the Jews that the Gentiles are included, I would agree with you.
That would make Paul a liar. Paul says there is one baptism. You say there's 2.
Eph. 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism
turbosixx
New member
You gave scripture that talked about having died but not HOW. Is there more than one way HOW?
Buried with him by baptism. I didn't write this, God did.
Rom. 6:3 Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.
Look how it starts out. DO YOU NOT KNOW.
God's Truth
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When one wants to be saved they REPENT of their sins and know that they can't keep living a sinful life that IS dying to the sins of the world.
God's Truth
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There is something that you seem to have forgotten, and that is that the Pharisees and teachers of the law enforced the old law and they didn’t believe in Jesus.
Acts 10:28 He said to them: "You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with or visit a Gentile. But God has shown me that I should not call anyone impure or unclean.
Again, Peter could have water baptized them first and then they could have received the Holy Spirit. However, God giving Cornelius and his whole household the Holy Spirit before they were water baptized prove that it can be done.
There is only one baptism that saves and that is when the saved person receives the Holy Spirit. For you not to understand something I say does not mean you can claim I make Paul a liar. Can you refrain from speaking like that to me?
When one is saved they are baptized with the Holy Spirit. It means that Jesus is living in your heart.
Do you not know that?
turbosixx
New member
Dying to the sins of the world is not dying with Christ being buried with him in a death like his.
God's Truth
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Falling backwards in water is not really dying. It is symbolic of dying of the sins you repent of doing first.
Jesus saves us when he gives us the Holy Spirit. That is when we are washed, put in him, and he in us. That is when one is saved and raised with Christ. A person must first believe and repent of their sins to get saved.