Daniel1611
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If Messianic Jews believe in the Gospel of Christ, whey not just call themselves "Christians?" Because they want to hold on to Jewish myths and fables?
Messianic Christology
- Thread starter intojoy
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Did you disown your parents at the point of salvation?
Daniel1611
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I don't understand your point.
Did you change cultures when you became a Christian or did you pretty much continue in the same western gentile culture which you inherited from your forefathers?
Daniel1611
New member
Culture and religion aren't the same necessarily. Judaism is a religion. "Messianic Judaism" seems to me an oxymoron. When I believed on Christ I didn't start calling myself a "Christian Occultist." I dropped my antichrist beliefs and believed in the Bible. It's like "Messianic Jews" want to hang on to parts of the Pharisaic religion of modern day Judaism. If what you're getting at is that Jews are Jews regardless of their religion, I don't buy it. Society says Jewish is an ethnicity. I let the Bible be it's own dictionary. The Bible does not record that Jewish is a race or ethnicity. The Bible records people "becoming Jews," such as in Esther 8.
True
You likely won't agree but I distinguish between OT Judaism/the historical practices of OT Jews and Rabbinical Judaism which became separated from OT Judaism because of the destruction of the Temple.
Indeed, Judaism is a religion.
Some Jews upon realizing and receiving Jesus of Nazareth as their OT prophecied Messiah saw no reason to suddenly adopt a gentile culture and leave the traditions which they had known all their lives.
Some of these have chosen a more extreme practice of adherance to the Mosaic law and some have also included Rabbinical and even Kabbalah. I agree that they're wrong in this.
When I became a Christian, I renounced Eastern mysticism and all connections to 'antichrist' philosophies and practices.
Some do.....some don't.
The Jews that I know who have 'become Christian/ received their Messiah.....etc' are a varied lot.
Some have separated themselves entirely from any vestige of an association with a Jewish culture, some retain some, others retain more. Some that I know have been totally renounced by their Jewish relatives and friends as a result of accepting Jesus as Messiah/Christ.
Many Jews have a Jewish identity. It's who they are, regardless of what you or anybody else thinks of it.
Some Christians come from an Irish heritage, some a Chinese. Are they to renounce and separate themselves from their ancestry simply because they've become Christians?
I find that there is never any demand for this when it concerns the varied cultures of the world, but when it comes to Jews, suddenly it all changes and they are pressured to stop being Jews. History shows that they were forced to convert at times and renounce any connection to anything Jewish. Was that good? Did the wholely Jewish Church demand that gentiles become Jews upon conversion in the first century? There were some, for sure, but the final verdict of Acts 15 was that the gentiles who were coming to Christ should not be forced to become proselyte Jews and keep the law of Moses. Why should the largely gentile cultured church today now demand that the Jew become a gentile upon conversion?
Jacob was a literal man.
GOD changed his name to Israel.
Israel had twelve sons.
One of those sons was named Judah.
Judah was a literal man.
At the time of the exile the term Jew began to be used with reference to the descendants of Judah, Benjamin, Levi and some of the other tribes which returned with Judah.
The Bible does record Jewishness as an ethnicity.
There was a provision for gentiles to become proselyte Jews.
Rahab became a Jew.
Ruth became a Jew and others.
The Persians in Esther's time feared for their lives and many became proselyte Jews.
I don't agree with everything that is practiced within Messianic Judaism. But, I do know ethnic Jews(wrong or right, historical or not, it is a Jewish ethnicity to them very deeply and personal) who see themselves as Jews and also recognize, as I do, that Jesus of Nazareth was a Jew and that He is the promised OT Messiah of the nation of Israel. I see no justification for anyone to deny this nor do I see any right for someone to tell Jews that they are no longer Jews and to break all connections to their Jewish heritage.
I am of Irish, English/German descent. That did not change when I became a Christian.
Daniel1611
New member
I understand your point. I still don't accept that the modern day group of people who call themselves "Jews" , and are as white as I am, have anymore of Jacob's blood than I do. And just based on probability, pretty much everyone has at least one ancestor at some point who descends from Jacob.
Two studious responses. Moses didn't call Judah's father-in-law a 'son' of Abraham... Moses said Judah's father-in-law Shuah was one of the "children of Keturah", wife of Abraham (Genesis 25:1, 2, 3, 4).
Moses said Judah's father-in-law Shuah was a "Canaanite" (Genesis 38:1, 2).
Ezra said Judah's wife, daughter of the Canaanite Shuah, was a "Canaanitess" (1Chronicles 2:3).
Ezra excluded Judah's half-Canaanite son Shelah, and "The sons of Shelah the son of Judah..." (1Chronicles 4:21) from the tribal roster of Judah in 1Chronicles 4:1 KJV.
The Lord said don't marry a Canaanite (Deuteronomy 7:1, 2, 3).
Ezra recognized that an Israelite hooking up with a Canaanite was a great trespass (Ezra 9:1, 2, 7).
God killed Shelah's two elder brothers (Genesis 38:6, 7, 8, 9, 10).
When a Shelanite practices the traditions of the patriarchs... does that make a Shelanite either a Hebrew, or an ancestrally authentic Jew?
Might want to reconsider Revelation 2:9, 3:9. After all... the Shelanite 'Jews' did instigate the crucifixion.
Does this help any?
kayaker
Daniel1611
New member
It doesn't matter who is descended from the Hebrews. There is neither Jew nor Greek. The whole world is of one blood. If ye are Christ's then are ye Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise. Ethnicity, Race, etc. are not important to God and should not be important to us. But to people who claim they are ethnically "Jews," it seems to be a big deal. So if we look at the majority of people calling themselves "Jews", they are white basically. But we have recorded in the Bible that Moses, Joseph and Paul were all mistaken for Egyptians. And we know that Egyptians are not white. Therefore, if these Hebrews were mistaken for Egyptians, I doubt the Hebrews were white.
Yeah, Acts 17. We all descended from Adam and then from either Shem, Ham or Japheth. One blood for sure.
Paul wasn't denying differences in ethnicity but was emphasizing that in Christ there is no rank. At that time, many believing Jews were ranking themselves above Gentile believers. Paul was assuring the Gentiles, women and slaves that they were all on equal footing.
It certainly mattered to GOD that Jesus descended from the Hebrews and that He was a Jew and a descendant of King David.
It would matter to me if a large portion of the world was fixated on my ethnicity, and denied the truth of it, especially if my ancestors and been persecuted, ostracized and had faced extermination at various times in their history. That makes it a 'big deal'.
It appears that lots of people, from many persuasions, are still making it a 'big deal'.
Oh I was laughing at your word play into...
Gayaker
Jesus will not return until the Jews ask Him to.
God's Truth
New member
lol
God's Truth
New member
No way.
I can hardly believe what you said. You say we are not waiting for Jesus to come, but rather, we are waiting for the time the Jews all get together and ask for Jesus to come.
Both.
Appreciating your humor while you circumvent a rather significant ancestral distinction (Revelation 2:9, 3:9)... are you above referring to Matthew 24:30 KJV? That event does follow Matthew 24:15, 28. Have any comment on who the 'Jews' are going to anoint in the temple they're planning on rebuilding? Might take another glance at Revelation 3:10 KJV... you appear to be a prime candidate to welcome the 'Jews' anointed one that will occur before Matthew 24:30 KJV.
kayaker