God's Truth
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Messianic Christology
- Thread starter intojoy
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I'm doubting you have the newborn human spirit. Why would I discuss doctrine with you as you would be incapable of discerning truth.
Gospel yes. Doctrine no.
I can quite well discern a Pharzite Jew from a Shelanite impostor. So, you have the gift of discerning spirits, then? What's doctrine about that post above? How about discerning Revelation 2:9, 3:9? Jesus spoke of a specific truth in John 8:31 KJV, John 8:32 KJV. He summed up His point in John 8:44 KJV... does that verse sorta resonate with Revelation 2:9, 3:9? And, what exactly is the ancestral origin of those you worship as 'Jews', anyway?
You confirming your lack of the Spirit?
If you've got the Spirit... were the Shelanite descendants of Judah and his Canaanite wife, ancestrally authentic Jews?
The ancient Jewish concept of Messiah was an anointed military king who would defeat the powers and principalities that held back the Jews from living freely in their own land.
Messiah was one of the many different theological titles applied to Jesus after his death.
In Jesus’s case, the Gospel writers were driven in large part by the need to make his story conform with pre-existing Jewish expectations about the Messiah.
Understanding this helps us make sense of some of the conflicts and contradictions in the four Gospels.
Any careful reader of the Bible can easily detect there was a major problem of figuring out just where Jesus came from.
Everyone familiar with Christmas carols knows that Jesus was born in Bethlehem; yet he is also known as Jesus of Nazareth, a small town in the Galilee.
To explain this discrepancy, the gospel of Luke invents a deeply implausible story about how, just before Jesus’s birth, his parents traveled from Nazareth to Bethlehem to comply with a Roman census. Such a census never happened in the way it was supposed to. Requiring everyone to travel to the land of their ancestors to be counted would have been a bureaucratic nightmare of the first order.
The details in the gospels make no sense, but that was beside the point.
Jesus had to be given roots in Bethlehem so that he could be born in the same city as King David—the Messiah, after all, was supposed to be a descendant of David’s house.
Messiah was one of the many different theological titles applied to Jesus after his death.
In Jesus’s case, the Gospel writers were driven in large part by the need to make his story conform with pre-existing Jewish expectations about the Messiah.
Understanding this helps us make sense of some of the conflicts and contradictions in the four Gospels.
Any careful reader of the Bible can easily detect there was a major problem of figuring out just where Jesus came from.
Everyone familiar with Christmas carols knows that Jesus was born in Bethlehem; yet he is also known as Jesus of Nazareth, a small town in the Galilee.
To explain this discrepancy, the gospel of Luke invents a deeply implausible story about how, just before Jesus’s birth, his parents traveled from Nazareth to Bethlehem to comply with a Roman census. Such a census never happened in the way it was supposed to. Requiring everyone to travel to the land of their ancestors to be counted would have been a bureaucratic nightmare of the first order.
The details in the gospels make no sense, but that was beside the point.
Jesus had to be given roots in Bethlehem so that he could be born in the same city as King David—the Messiah, after all, was supposed to be a descendant of David’s house.
I remember in about 1971, reading the Gospels as a non-Christian, absorbed in eastern pantheism and at the time high on LSD. All that I read appeared contradictory and I remember laughing at the absurdity of it all. I made the statement, "Someday I'll write my on version of the Bible." My friend said, "You'll encounter a tremendous opposition."
I said, "I don't care. I can write at least as good as this stuff."
In 1979, Jesus Christ came into my life, or rather.....I came into His.
The Bible, which before was a closed book to me as far as truly understanding it, suddenly became an open book and it began to all fit together.
1Co 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
So, intojoy:
This answer would appear to be a slam dunk yes, or no. Why so trepidatious? If your Jewish master Dr. Frucktenbaum makes up your mind, please let me know!
kayaker
This answer would appear to be a slam dunk yes, or no. Why so trepidatious? If your Jewish master Dr. Frucktenbaum makes up your mind, please let me know!
kayaker
You crack me up, Joy! LOL! So, 'Messi-ain't-it crystallography' is the newest gig in town. I'm waiting for the next one... 'Islamic-Judaeology'. Polish the crystal ball and paint me a picture: proclaim Jesus a Pharzite Jew, then! Might want to reconsider Luke's account:
Luke 12:49-53 "I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? 50) But I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how am I straightened till it be accomplished! 51) Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you Nay; but rather division: 52) For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided , three against two, and two against three. 53) The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law."
Was Jesus a Pharzite Jew, Joy? We do proclaim the 'name' of Jesus, don't we? 'Name' as in ancestry?
kayaker
LOL! If you'd take a glance away from that rosy mirror of yours for a moment, and polish that crystal ball...
kayaker, adopted Pharzite Jew. Maybe Pharzitology? LOL!
300 fulfilled prophecies at first coming? Wrong. Here's the complete list
poo to intoYOUrself
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
facing reality......
facing reality......
Remember joyful one,.......no orthodox Jew accepts that any of the OT so called 'messianic' prophesies were fullfilled by Jesus. My previous post here holds. See all links.
Look at the world today....how many messianic prophesies or proofs of a Messiah and his effects do you see on a global level? The Jewish vision of a Messiah reigning is nil......that is according to their scriptural standards. At best, Christians can only claim an assumed 'personal relationship' with Jesus or some inner transformational power thru subjective religious experience "in Christ"....as some way of 'walking with God' or living 'in the kingdom', individually or in communinity. Its essentially esoteric in nature....beyond what external effects such can produce.
Tossing up a laundry list of prophesies doesn't always cut it, since there's so much more to consider here as far as 'messianic concepts' go. This is why most secularists consider such beliefs 'utopian' or merely 'idealistic'.
pj
facing reality......
Remember joyful one,.......no orthodox Jew accepts that any of the OT so called 'messianic' prophesies were fullfilled by Jesus. My previous post here holds. See all links.
Look at the world today....how many messianic prophesies or proofs of a Messiah and his effects do you see on a global level? The Jewish vision of a Messiah reigning is nil......that is according to their scriptural standards. At best, Christians can only claim an assumed 'personal relationship' with Jesus or some inner transformational power thru subjective religious experience "in Christ"....as some way of 'walking with God' or living 'in the kingdom', individually or in communinity. Its essentially esoteric in nature....beyond what external effects such can produce.
Tossing up a laundry list of prophesies doesn't always cut it, since there's so much more to consider here as far as 'messianic concepts' go. This is why most secularists consider such beliefs 'utopian' or merely 'idealistic'.
pj
I have found Messianics utilizing PORK Baptism.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
If you want to intelligently discuss the subject, you'll need the intellectual honesty and creativity to address my last post, with its pertinent links, instead of leaving an ad hominem remark which does little to help your case.
Grow up.
pj