May I ask...

[Derf]

Why do you think that I think that? Because I don't.

You think the Jews are saved by the law, since James talked about grace being added to the law, right?

 

[JudgeRightly]

You think the Jews are saved by the law, since James talked about grace being added to the law, right?

NO.

The Gospel of the Kingdom and the plot twist.

So if you can commit to that, I'll read it, I promise. I mean generally, especially if two or more MAD's here can make that commitment, I'll read it. You have that commitment from me Idolater.

theologyonline.com

The problem I've noticed is that people don't catch the tense of what we say, and then get confused when we say what we say.

The Bible teaches that the Jews WERE, past tense, saved by keeping the law, in that they USED TO HAVE TO to keep the law their entire life ("endure to the end") to achieve salvation, and that this dispensation of law continued into the period AFTER God cut off Israel, and turned to the Gentiles, at the conversion of Paul on the road to Damascus, but that method was eventually, for lack of a better word, "turned off", so that both dispensations existed simultaneously, the covenant of law, where one achieves salvation (the salvation of the Jews being the return of Christ to establish His Kingdom) by keeping the law, which includes faith in God, and the dispensation of Grace, where one is saved unto eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord by faith alone, and immediately, no works required on our part, because God did all the work.

Jews that are saved today are saved under the dispensation of the grace of God.

Jews that were saved after Paul's conversion, who were ministered to by the Twelve and the church in Israel, were saved under the New Covenant.

That's why you see Paul taking offerings to help out the church in Jerusalem, because they still fully expected Christ to return, which is literally the salvation of the nation of Israel!

 

[Derf]

NO.

The Gospel of the Kingdom and the plot twist.

So if you can commit to that, I'll read it, I promise. I mean generally, especially if two or more MAD's here can make that commitment, I'll read it. You have that commitment from me Idolater.

theologyonline.com

The problem I've noticed is that people don't catch the tense of what we say, and then get confused when we say what we say.

The Bible teaches that the Jews WERE, past tense, saved by keeping the law, in that they USED TO HAVE TO to keep the law their entire life ("endure to the end") to achieve salvation, and that this dispensation of law continued into the period AFTER God cut off Israel, and turned to the Gentiles, at the conversion of Paul on the road to Damascus, but that method was eventually, for lack of a better word, "turned off", so that both dispensations existed simultaneously, the covenant of law, where one achieves salvation (the salvation of the Jews being the return of Christ to establish His Kingdom) by keeping the law, which includes faith in God, and the dispensation of Grace, where one is saved unto eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord by faith alone, and immediately, no works required on our part, because God did all the work.

Jews that are saved today are saved under the dispensation of the grace of God.

Jews that were saved after Paul's conversion, who were ministered to by the Twelve and the church in Israel, were saved under the New Covenant.

That's why you see Paul taking offerings to help out the church in Jerusalem, because they still fully expected Christ to return, which is literally the salvation of the nation of Israel!

Why is that in conflict with what I said you were saying? James was writing to Jews, according to you. James was writing to those following the "kingdom gospel", according to you. James was not writing in the past with respect to the kingdom gospel Jews, since he was a kingdom gospel Jew, according to you. So James wrote that they could be saved by keeping the law, according to the post I'm currently responding to.

Yet the author of Hebrews says it was IMPOSSIBLE to be saved by keeping that law.
Hebrews 10:1 KJV — For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

The writer of Hebrews was writing to the Jews (obviously), and he was writing in keeping with the kingdom gospel, right, since he was talking about kings and priests?

So why, during the time of James, was James pushing a gospel that relied on the law to save, when the author of Hebrews says the law can't save?

 

[JudgeRightly]

Why is that in conflict with what I said you were saying?

You're still missing it.

You said:

You think the Jews are saved by the law,

I corrected you:

The Bible teaches that the Jews WERE, past tense, saved by keeping the law

You keep speaking in present tense.

I'm talking in past tense.

How is that so hard to understand?

So why, during the time of James, was James pushing a gospel that relied on the law to save,

Answered:

because they still fully expected Christ to return, which is literally the salvation of the nation of Israel!

So now...

when the author of Hebrews says the law can't save?

Because the law alone cannot save. It requires the under-girding of grace, as Paul states. This is something that the unbelieving Jews did not (or perhaps refused to) understand (and is what Romans 9-11 is all about!).

In the Old Testament, without grace, God would have sent anyone who broke His laws to hell.

But because God was looking forwards to the cross, He implemented sacrifices as a way to "get back on track" for His creation, since He knew, as Paul stated, that men are simply unable to keep the law perfectly.

 

[Derf]

You're still missing it.

You said:

I typed that wrong, or my phone corrected it wrong. My intent was to keep the conversation about the past, to deal with what you were saying.

I corrected you:



You keep speaking in present tense.

I'm talking in past tense.

How is that so hard to understand?



Answered:



So now...



Because the law alone cannot save. It requires the under-girding of grace, as Paul states. This is something that the unbelieving Jews did not (or perhaps refused to) understand (and is what Romans 9-11 is all about!).

In the Old Testament, without grace, God would have sent anyone who broke His laws to hell.

But because God was looking forwards to the cross, He implemented sacrifices as a way to "get back on track" for His creation, since He knew, as Paul stated, that men are simply unable to keep the law perfectly.

So when you said that grace added to law equals law, aren't you saying the Jews of James' time were saved by the law?

 

[Hoping]

No, that's how it works.
The moment you add law to grace, it becomes law.

How about after One, by grace, furnishes a Law?
Wasn't the Law of God good ?

Read Genesis 15 for me, please.
What did Abraham do in that chapter, regarding the covenant he made with God?

After the Lord appears to Him? (v1)
The doubting Abe asked God for a sign that God's promise was true, (v2), and God calmed his worries, (v4-5), and Abe finally believed and was counted as righteous. (v6).
The Lord speaks again, (v7), but Abe still doubts and asks for yet another sign. (v8).
God tells Abram to offer sacrificial animals, (v9-11), and Abram has a bad dream, (v12).
In v13-17, God tells Abram what will transpire in the future, and makes a covenant with Abram promising him the land from the Nile to the Euphrates and all the tribes therein.
So, after appearing to Abe and talking with him, Abe believes.

How could Abe not believe after seeing and speaking with the Lord and seeing the visions?

Second time I've asked you.
Use the "+Quote" button to respond to posts, or be more careful when you highlight portions that you want to quote. You're quoting the end of the link of the verse that I posted, and it does this.

I don't know what you are referring to.

"Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness" is as plain as can be.

Agreed, but only after hearing from the Lord and seeing visions.
Abe must have been a tough sell.

You are rejecting it.

Not at all, but it was his actions that proved Abe's faithfulness.

Irrelevant.

I don't agree with your POV that belief doesn't breed action.

We're talking about what is necessary to be saved.

Submission to God, and all that entails, is necessary for salvation.
That salvation will eventually be awarded, if ones name is still in the book of life.

Rabbit trail.

Nah..."Isn't it nice that God gives us chances to illustrate our own faith/belief ?"...was just a thought.

Stop putting words in my mouth, and stop adding to the scriptures.
We are saved by faith apart from works. PERIOD.

Apart from the works of the Law.
Those who do not acknowledge that will condemn even hearing and believing...to be saved.

But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
“Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered;
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.” - Romans 4:5-8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans4:5-8&version=NKJV

Thanks be to God, that circumcision, tithing, fast keeping sabbath keeping, and dietary rules now have no bearing on salvation.

Ripping what I said out of context.

Not really.

1) Saying it doesn't make it so
2) How would you know? How many staunch athiests have you seen on their deathbeds who then pass away?
3) Of course you have to deny that it happens, because it runs counter to your entire worldview. If it were to happen, your entire worldview would be upended, because you believe that works must accompany faith for a person to get saved!
Bob Enyart's father acccepted Christ just before he died. Prior to that, he rejected God.
I'm not just making up the example. It does, in fact, happen.
But you have to reject reality, because your commitment is to your beliefs, rather than truth.

1) Saying it doesn't make it so.
BTW, is that the truth Jesus said could make us free from committing sin, in John 8:32-34?

You're the one doing the demonizing! Can't you see that?!

No.

In the example I gave above, the former atheist had ZERO WORKS OF ANY KIND, yet he still went to Heaven, because FAITH IN GOD is what is needed to be saved, not works.

The day of judgement has yet to occur.

THAT'S WHAT GRACE IS!!!!
You are trying to gatekeep heaven, of all things, by requiring that people "do" something!
You are no better than the men from James!

You "did something" when you listened to the gospel message.
You "did something" when you decided to believe it was true.
You "did something" when you repented of sin and were water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your past sins and for the destruction of your flesh, old man, in order to be reborn.
If you are filled with grace, you will continue to "do something" for the poor and needy, and for the hungry and naked.
Or else Jesus will end up saying to you..."And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not." (Matt 25:40-43)

Fallen angels cannot be saved. They will be cast into the lake of fire at the end of this age.
It's not a matter of "if they repent."
You said it yourself. They won't submit to God. Ever. Their fate (to borrow a Greek term) is sealed.
This is a topic for a different thread however, and your position is actually anti-biblical:
For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham. Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. - Hebrews 2:16-17 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews2:16-17&version=NKJV
Either cede the point, or take it to another thread.

The point is that thousands of years after the fact, we can see that Abram was called righteous for his belief.
But had Abe offended God, after his alleged belief, the belief would have been shown to be false, and he would have been "cast out".
Moral of the story...Manifest your belief/faith everyday !

 

[JudgeRightly]

So when you said that grace added to law equals law, aren't you saying the Jews of James' time were saved by the law?

The believing Jews of James' day (post Paul) were saved by grace, but their salvation was not achieved.

Their salvation is the return of Christ, and the establishment of His Kingdom.

 

[way 2 go]

How could Abe not believe after seeing and speaking with the Lord and seeing the visions?

Judas Iscariot was with Jesus over 3 years and didn't believe.

(Mark 3:19) And Judas Iscariot, which also betrayed him:

 

[Hoping]

Judas Iscariot was with Jesus over 3 years and didn't believe.

(Mark 3:19) And Judas Iscariot, which also betrayed him:

Judas truly was a fool, wasn't he.
Manifest your belief every day, and it won't crumble under pressure.

 

[Hoping]

The believing Jews of James' day (post Paul) were saved by grace, but their salvation was not achieved.

Their salvation is the return of Christ, and the establishment of His Kingdom.

The believing Jews were from the start "saved" by grace.
Don't you consider the fact that Jesus even came to be "by grace"?
Jesus gracefully took all our past sins on Himself.
Jesus, by grace, endured the sufferings and death we all deserved.
Jesus gracefully provided all we require to live as He lived.

 

[Derf]

The believing Jews of James' day (post Paul) were saved by grace, but their salvation was not achieved.

Their salvation is the return of Christ, and the establishment of His Kingdom.

Our salvation is not achieved yet either:
1 Thessalonians 5:8 KJV — But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

1 Corinthians 15:19 KJV — If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

Galatians 5:5 KJV — For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Ephesians 4:4 KJV — There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

Colossians 1:23 KJV — If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Titus 1:2 KJV — In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

1 Peter 3:15 KJV — But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

Romans 8:24 KJV — For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
If we already see our salvation, then hope isn't necessary. But Paul repeatedly says (and Peter agrees) that we have hope of our salvation.

 

[steko]

Our salvation is not achieved yet either:
1 Thessalonians 5:8 KJV — But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

1 Corinthians 15:19 KJV — If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

Galatians 5:5 KJV — For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Ephesians 4:4 KJV — There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

Colossians 1:23 KJV — If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Titus 1:2 KJV — In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

1 Peter 3:15 KJV — But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

Romans 8:24 KJV — For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
If we already see our salvation, then hope isn't necessary. But Paul repeatedly says (and Peter agrees) that we have hope of our salvation.

You are imposing a modern day definition onto the Scriptural word 'hope'.
hope: to desire without any basis for expecting fulfillment.

That is not the meaning used anywhere in the NT.
The word hope in NT Greek is 'elpis'

ἐλπίς
elpis
el-pece'
Fromἔλπω elpō which is a primary word (to anticipate, usually with pleasure); expectation (abstract or concrete) or confidence: - faith, hope.
Total KJV occurrences: 54

My hope(confident expectation) is based on GOD's certain promises to me in Scripture.
My hope is my trust in what GOD has said.

 

[JudgeRightly]

The believing Jews were from the start "saved" by grace.

The start of what?

Don't you consider the fact that Jesus even came to be "by grace"?

Jesus was circumcised.

Jesus gracefully took all our past sins on Himself.

Yes, that's part of grace, but Jesus came for the lost sheep of the House of Israel.

Jesus, by grace, endured the sufferings and death we all deserved.
Jesus gracefully provided all we require to live as He lived.

Irrelevant.

The salvation of the Jews was the return of Christ, and the ushering in of His Kingdom.

The Body of Christ was a mystery kept secret from the foundation of the world, and was not revealed until Saul's conversion.

 

[Hoping]

You are imposing a modern day definition onto the Scriptural word 'hope'.
hope: to desire without any basis for expecting fulfillment.

That is not the meaning used anywhere in the NT.
The word hope in NT Greek is 'elpis'

ἐλπίς
elpis
el-pece'
Fromἔλπω elpō which is a primary word (to anticipate, usually with pleasure); expectation (abstract or concrete) or confidence: - faith, hope.
Total KJV occurrences: 54

My hope(confident expectation) is based on GOD's certain promises to me in Scripture.
My hope is my trust in what GOD has said.

I feel you err in thinking one cannot hope for the impossible.

 

[Hoping]

The start of what?

From Gen 6:8, and Noah..."But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord."

Jesus was circumcised.

Does that overshadow the fact that by grace He came to us humans?
I think not.

Yes, that's part of grace, but Jesus came for the lost sheep of the House of Israel.

Yes, gracefully He did.
And gracefully He opened the doors to Gentiles too.
Thanks be to our graceful God !

Irrelevant.

It is only irrelevant to those without knowledge of the true over arching grace of God.
Your need to confine "grace" to a post Acts something verse deprives God of the notoriety and glory for His long suffering grace for those pre-Jesus.

The salvation of the Jews was the return of Christ, and the ushering in of His Kingdom.

It is my Gentile salvation too
Romans 14:17
For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Colossians 1:13
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
1 Thessalonians 2:12
That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.
2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
The 2 Thes. verse refers more to the coming physical kingdom we all wait for than to the kingdom in our hearts already.

The Body of Christ was a mystery kept secret from the foundation of the world, and was not revealed until Saul's conversion.

Paul did indeed reveal what had happened at the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ most adequately.
Paul connected a lot of the dots laid down in the OT that were fulfilled by the Son of God.
I wish some of Apollos' writings were still around, as he seemed to be able to prove Jesus was the promised Messiah well too.

 

[Derf]

You are imposing a modern day definition onto the Scriptural word 'hope'.
hope: to desire without any basis for expecting fulfillment.

That is not the meaning used anywhere in the NT.
The word hope in NT Greek is 'elpis'

ἐλπίς
elpis
el-pece'
Fromἔλπω elpō which is a primary word (to anticipate, usually with pleasure); expectation (abstract or concrete) or confidence: - faith, hope.
Total KJV occurrences: 54

My hope(confident expectation) is based on GOD's certain promises to me in Scripture.
My hope is my trust in what GOD has said.

You don't "expect" something that has already come to pass. If I've already had my breakfast, I'm not in some kind of expectation that I will get to have breakfast today. I don't need to have "confidence" that breakfast will happen when it has already happened. "Promises" are about something that hasn't yet occurred. We don't go around trusting in "promises" when the thing that was promised is already fulfilled.

Your hope is that what God said will come true. You trust that He is able to deliver on His promises. If what God has promised has already come to pass, then we are all living in Heaven with Jesus in bodily form. I think you can see that's not true.

 

[JudgeRightly]

You don't "expect" something that has already come to pass. If I've already had my breakfast, I'm not in some kind of expectation that I will get to have breakfast today. I don't need to have "confidence" that breakfast will happen when it has already happened. "Promises" are about something that hasn't yet occurred. We don't go around trusting in "promises" when the thing that was promised is already fulfilled.

Your hope is that what God said will come true. You trust that He is able to deliver on His promises. If what God has promised has already come to pass, then we are all living in Heaven with Jesus in bodily form. I think you can see that's not true.

The idea is that the promises God makes are as good as fulfilled. Or are you saying that God can't deliver on His promises when He promises something?

Our hope is in Him. We fully expect that we are saved when we place our trust in Him.

The fact is that He promised to save us if we placed our trust in Him, and He fulfilled that promise when we did.

 

[steko]

You don't "expect" something that has already come to pass. If I've already had my breakfast, I'm not in some kind of expectation that I will get to have breakfast today. I don't need to have "confidence" that breakfast will happen when it has already happened. "Promises" are about something that hasn't yet occurred. We don't go around trusting in "promises" when the thing that was promised is already fulfilled.

Your hope is that what God said will come true. You trust that He is able to deliver on His promises. If what God has promised has already come to pass, then we are all living in Heaven with Jesus in bodily form. I think you can see that's not true.

It seems to me that you are arguing with someone other than me.
I don't see anywhere in my post what you describe in your post as me affirming.

 

[Derf]

The idea is that the promises God makes are as good as fulfilled.

Exactly! That was my point.

Or are you saying that God can't deliver on His promises when He promises something?

Our hope is in Him. We fully expect that we are saved when we place our trust in Him.

"Are saved" from what?

The fact is that He promised to save us if we placed our trust in Him, and He fulfilled that promise when we did.

But the fulfillment isn't fulfilled yet. It's still a promise, and we still hope it will be fulfilled, according to Paul.

 

[way 2 go]

Manifest that confession.

again ?
Jesus Christ is Lord

Jesus, (Matt 22:40)

so you keep "all the law" or do you pick and choose the ones you want to keep

I agree, though you have changed the subject.

but you like keeping some of the law for boasting purposes , but not all of the law
it's not off topic of Mid Acts Dispensation and rightly dividing the word of God(II Timothy 2:15)

That verse doesn't prove what you say.

Judged at the time of death
do you think everyone is going to heaven when they die right now and then on judgement day God will kick the unsaved out ?
you're judged the moment you die ?
(II Corinthians 5:8) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.

Can't you?

no , nor can you

Agreed.

and David had to keep the law

God did, as grace was around since Noah, but Law didn't come around until Moses.

no but I will let JR answer
JR:The point was that grace can be added to law, and it will remain law, but adding law to grace turns it into law.

Yes, in spite of there being no Law of Moses.

Gen 17:10 This is my covenant, which you shall keep, between me and you and your offspring after you: Every male among you shall be circumcised.
(Genesis 17:14) And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.

Are you saying that salvation without the Law did NOT happen when Jesus was raised from the dead?
Yikes, the 3000 converts baptized into Christ on the day of Pentecost will be surprised.

what verse in acts 2 did away with the law as in specifically says the law was done away with ,
not asking for your interpretation of a verse " that could mean "
show me a verse that says "the law" was abolished from acts chapter 2

I don't think they were still depending on any Law for their salvation.

BTW it was an audience of almost all Jews so the abolishing of the law would have been a huge deal

(Matthew 23:23) Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought you to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Agreed, it is an action and not a work of the Law of Moses.
Neither is the acceptance of the gift of repentance from sin.
Or baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
Or receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Thanks be to God !

you're a works salvation kinda guy , not made righteous by faith alone
(Romans 4:5) But to him that works not, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness

there was no law at the time Abraham was made righteous 1st covenant Gen 15:6 , by faith alone

You are so correct about labeling determining nothing.
Labeling someone as faithful is a loot point.
Their actions will determine their faithfulness.

no.
God knows his own
(Romans 8:15-16)

Amen to that.
Belief doesn't leave room for disobedience or doubt.

(Romans 7:15 [MKJV]) For that which I do, I know not. For what I desire, that I do not do; but what I hate, that I do.

The law of Christ, or, the law of liberty, is to love God with all your heart, strength, soul, and mind, and to love your neighbor as you love yourself.
Doing that will encompass forgoing adultery, murder, and the rest of the unrighteous acts Paul lists in Gal 5 and Eph 5.
And the ones he didn't spell out, like drug abuse or child molesting.

so do you have to keep the whole law or just those 5 laws to stay saved ?


"It is permanent, until you"
"commit adultery or steal from work"
"murder"
"drug abuse or child molesting"

Sons don't disobey God their Father.

sons don't get kicked out of the family for disobedience
(Romans 7:15 [MKJV]) For that which I do, I know not. For what I desire, that I do not do; but what I hate, that I do.

He is the "Boss".
You do love Him...right?

I love Jesus , Romans 8:15

I don't love my employer

How do you know Abe' was faithful?

God wrote it down
Gen 15:6 And he believed the LORD, and he counted it to him as righteousness.

Are not his faithful actions written of?

in the 1st covenant he believed
Gen 15:6 And he believed the LORD, and he counted it to him as righteousness.

you really don't like rightly dividing the word of God do you ?

(II Timothy 2:15) Study to show yourself approved to God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth

I think you got the order mixed up, plus the definition of the present day covenant we have today.
"Faith alone" is a misnomer.
The devils believe.

demons don't have faith

salvation is by faith

1st covenant
promise
Gen 15:5
Gen 15:6
blood shed
Gen 15:9
Gen 15:10
abram was asleep (faith only)
Gen 15:12
God confirmed the covenant
Gen 15:17

2nd covenant

promise
Gen 17:5
Gen 17:6
Gen 17:7
bloodshed and covenant confirmed each time the
work of circumcision is done.
Gen 17:10


(Ephesians 3:2) If you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

I hope for that day too.

the moment people die their eternal fate is sealed as faith will no longer be possible because they will know there is a God
(II Corinthians 5:8) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Luk 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.

Be a follower of those who follow Christ in order to be found in the book of life on the day of judgement.

you missed the Plot change
Paul had a new dispensation
(Ephesians 3:2) If you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Weekly Bible Study Romans Part I

Join us in our study through the book of Romans. This week Romans 1: 1-17, and differing gospels, Jewish and Gentile Believers in Christ and in Rome, gospel definitions and ownership, differing transl

rumble.com

Unbelieving Israel was cut off.

Israel was cut off when Paul received his dispensation

What works do you refer to?
Helping the old lady across the street?
Stealing from the blind?

do I need to add these to the list of Laws hoping must keep to stay saved ?

Yes, I did...?

"I have seen plenty of men and women turn from their conversion, and from their love of Christ."

but according to you ,
you can tell if someone is a Christian by a few minutes of observation

Yes, He sees the pure hearts of the converted, but also the black hearts of the traitors.

(Romans 7:15 [MKJV]) For that which I do, I know not. For what I desire, that I do not do; but what I hate, that I do.