ECT MADist thought for the day
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andyc
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That's right.
SaulToPaul 2
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Rev 21:24 (KJV)
The Kings of the earth must be good high jumpers.
The Kings of the earth must be good high jumpers.
andyc
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There will be people in heaven who were kings on earth, but they will lay their honor aside to honor the king of kings.
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband
Well....John is speaking about 'an' earth and 'a' heaven in verse one.
And...in verse two, he is saying that the New Jerusalem is 'coming down out of 'the' heaven, mentioned in verse one, to something.
Would it not be reasonable to conclude that it is coming down to the earth mentioned in verse one?
Why go to some other sense, if what it plainly says makes good sense?
If the old earth is a planet, then why can't the new earth be a planet?
First off, the "new heaven and new earth" is a refrence to the new covenant, not a literal new planet.
Second verse 1 says there will be no more "sea", yet Rev 22:1 says there is a river.
So, you guys can't have it both ways. If everything is taken literal, then you have a river with no sea, which can't happen.
I have heard that Idi Amin had a 40" vertical.
andyc
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Some simple observations will make your view problematic.
I saw a new heaven and a new earth
John Can't be saying that he saw the physical and spiritual realm at the same time, because this would not make sense.
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband
Its quite obvious that there is symbolism here. How can a city be prepared as a bride?
Without a doubt John is describing the new Jerusalem that is the reward of the saints, the inheritance. It is impossible to explain a heavenly reward without using earthly imagery, and so the reward is explained in exaggerated natural ways to capture the imagination of the church.
Obviously John is saying that there is a whole new world, and there is a city descending from the sky (heaven) in this new world to the earth (ground).
That it's the new covenant? I never would have come to that conclusion on my own.
I don't think that enough information is given to determine what sea the reference is to. It could be the Mediteranean for all we know. It doesn't have to be referring to all the large bodies of water on earth, thus there can be a river.
For all those who think God will create a literal new planet earth:
Psalm 37:29
The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever.
Psalm 78:69
The earth which he hath established for ever.
Psalm 104:5
Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
Ecclessiastes 1:4
One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.
Psalm 37:29
The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever.
Psalm 78:69
The earth which he hath established for ever.
Psalm 104:5
Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
Ecclessiastes 1:4
One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.
I've never gotten the impression that you believe this earth will last forever........quite the opposite.
I'm not sure. Peter did speak of the current universe as though it will be "burned up":
2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.
2 Peter 3:12
Looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat.
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.
2 Peter 3:12
Looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat.
andyc
New member
Yeah
I think that dispensationalists handle the seeming contradiction in a away that causes them to reject the passages explaining how that this world will pass away, and focus on the verses that seem to imply to them that this world will continue after a renovation.
Of course, instead of choosing one side of an apparent contradiction, they should seek to find the correct balance between the two views. Messiah's kingdom was always going to be forever, but his rejection opened up the way for all to be accepted in Spirit.
Jesus became the first man to be honored in haven (as Hebrews explains), and those who choose to be identified in him, will also be welcomed and honored in heaven. However, the heavenly man is the mystery hidden in the plan of God from the foundation of the world (Rom 8:29).
SaulToPaul 2
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Genesis 8:22 While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.
Revelation 7:16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
Revelation 7:16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
graceandpeace
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True, but, when the word of God interprets the word of God, and you use the holy spirit to do so, you would come to that conclusion.
Three facts:
1. Abraham looked forward to the 'heavenly city':
Hbr 11:16 But now they desire a better [country], that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
2. It was made available, by their perfection, into the BOC, which is the same perfection, under the new covenant, (Jesus shed blood), that all saints undergo, in this age:
Hbr 11:39 And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise,
Hbr 11:40 God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.
Hbr 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Hbr 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
There are so many verses that describe a 'saints' perfection was through the work on the cross, and the work on the cross is the new and LIVING way; that every man must enter into, to be saved.
If you are not in the new covenant, you do not have your sins covered..for the new covenant is the shed blood of Jesus Christ.
graceandpeace
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graceandpeace
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:cheers:, and Merry Christmas~
graceandpeace
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It is the 'elements' that were to be destroyed. The 'elements' are the things contained in the old covenant law system...do a search..WINK
graceandpeace
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Are you trying to say that Rev 7:16 is not fulfilled upon salvation?
It was prophesised here, concerning what a man could experience in the 'spirit' through salvation, here:
Isa 49:8 Thus saith the LORD, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages;
Isa 49:9 That thou mayest say to the prisoners, Go forth; to them that [are] in darkness, Shew yourselves. They shall feed in the ways, and their pastures [shall be] in all high places.
Isa 49:10 They shall not hunger nor thirst; neither shall the heat nor sun smite them: for he that hath mercy on them shall lead them, even by the springs of water shall he guide them.
When was it fulfilled?
Luke 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Luk 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Luk 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave [it] again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
Luk 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
If you would do a word search on the word 'heat', you will find that it has spiritual significance..and, it speaks of no longer being under the wrath of God; it was His shed blood, and new covenant that set us free from that wrath; the law...works wrath.
Jesus brought salvation...through the new and living way, called the new covenant.
So...when one 'uses' the Holy Spirit, all readers will come to the same conclusions even without applying an allegorical spin to interpretation?
I continually see teachers/preachers, who all claim the illumination of the Holy Spirit, disagree on their interpretation of the exact same scripture.
It seems to me, that the claim, "the Holy Spirit informed me", becomes a spiritual ace card that claims to trump anyone who happens to disagree.
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