ECT Madist explain please how the 7 I AM's OF Jesus in John does not apply to the BOC

[SimpleMan77]

I'll add that some have been deceived honestly, but "flesh" is the underlying driver behind it.

Truly honest people will understand that we can't earn God's grace, but it teaches and enables us to "deny ungodliness and worldly lusts, and live soberly, righteously and godly in this present world".

Obedience in light of grace is Paul's way of putting it. Romans 12:1-2. Grace renews our minds, and teaches us how to prove what is the good, and acceptable, and perfect will of God


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[Right Divider]

Actually the reason they do it is because they want so desperately to prove that no obedience is required in order to be saved, and no amount of disobedience can amount to walking away from God (i.e. being lost).

It makes living for God a matter of thinking the thought "I believe", after which time you can live any way you wish. It totally "turns the grace of God into lasciviousness (license to sin)", but of course that scripture was written by Jude, therefore only being applicable to Jews in their view.

They turn any obedience to God into a "work to earn salvation" so they can convince themselves that anything that is easy on their flesh is perfectly ok, and anything that is a "living sacrifice" is poison (lest we try to earn God's grace).

If course they have to also twist Paul's words because he says a lot that doesn't agree with their doctrine, but they are ok with that I guess.

I hate to put it that bluntly, but it is the truth

You could not possibly be more wrong. You are a self-centered works salvationist and God's grace does not allow that.

Rom 5:19 (AKJV/PCE)​

(5:19) For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
​

You are NOT the one.

 

[Right Divider]

I'll add that some have been deceived honestly, but "flesh" is the underlying driver behind it.

Truly honest people will understand that we can't earn God's grace, but it teaches and enables us to "deny ungodliness and worldly lusts, and live soberly, righteously and godly in this present world".

Obedience in light of grace is Paul's way of putting it. Romans 12:1-2. Grace renews our minds, and teaches us how to prove what is the good, and acceptable, and perfect will of God

Our obedience is NOT to get saved. It's because we ARE saved.

Eph 2:5-10 (AKJV/PCE)​

(2:5) Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved (2:6) And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus: (2:7) That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in [his] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. (2:8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (2:9) Not of works, lest any man should boast. (2:10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
​

We SHOULD walk in them!

 

[heir]

Actually the reason they do it is because they want so desperately to prove that no obedience is required in order to be saved,

We teach obedience is necessary for salvation, as in "the obedience of faith"!

Romans 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Stop ignoring the facts of the gospel of our salvation which are:

1. 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV is the gospel "by which also ye are saved"

2. the gospel of Christ (cited above) is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth (Romans 1:16 KJV)

3. Our salvation is by grace through faith/not of works/not of ourselves (Romans 4:4-5 KJV, Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV, Titus 3:4-7 KJV)

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

And it's amazing that every answer you give falls apart under other parts of God's word.

Shouldn't be a surprise though - every time a theology tries to establish a belief system by pitting parts of the Word of God against other parts, it falls apart under the light of truth.

I don't blame with of you personally - you are simply repeating what you have been taught, no doubt. I'll post another explanation from another thread about the bigger problem with whoever first came up with this type of doctrine.


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:chuckle:

 

[musterion]

You all might want to try some of this.

Good for the forehead that's been repeatedly smacked against an unyielding wall.

 

[Lighthouse]

God was done with the Jews as a nation at Calvary. Individually he offered forgiveness, but as a nation they were done.
Ever since then we have been in the age of the church. Paul calls us the body. Peter says we are "in Christ", another way of saying we are His body (if someone was in my body, they'd have to be a part of my body). John says the same in recalling Jesus' words - we are in Christ.
At some point Jesus will reach specifically to the Jewish nation again. All those Jews who are "of Israel" shall be saved. Paul is very clear that not all Israelite people are "of Israel".

Parable of the fig tree. He was not done at Calvary.:nono:

1 Peter was addressed to "strangers". Now that term is usually used to describe Gentiles, but I think it is probably safe to say that he didn't mean to exclude the believing Jews.

παρεπίδημος

Thayer's Definition

1. one who comes from a foreign country into a city or land to reside there by the side of the natives
2. a stranger
3. sojourning in a strange place, a foreigner
4. in the NT metaph. in reference to heaven as the native country, one who sojourns on earth

Peter referred to them as strangers because they were strangers among the Gentiles in those lands.

 

[Interplanner]

"At some point" he will reach out to Jews again? Well, there are already a number of Christian missions to Israel. What else does there need to be?

 

[Lighthouse]

"At some point" he will reach out to Jews again? Well, there are already a number of Christian missions to Israel. What else does there need to be?

Romans 11

 

[Interplanner]

Romans 11

Rom 11 is Paul trying to get the Jews as countrymen in the 1st century to be missionaries, which he explained was his prayer in the middle of ch 10. 'All Israel...' means that all believers will be saved while the ethne Israel unfortunately goes on down through time partially hard. The quote from Isaiah is historical; it has already taken place at Paul's time (obviously future to Isaiah).

There is no prediction at all here that a special direct outreach to Israel will come from God (it already has in Christ), nor of a theocracy in Judea.

 

[musterion]

A nation repentant.

 

[Interplanner]

A nation repentant.

So all of those at some future snapshot in time repent--is that what you say it means? And how does that save all of Israel and what (in Rom 10-11) is 'saved'?

 

[Lighthouse]

Rom 11 is Paul trying to get the Jews as countrymen in the 1st century to be missionaries, which he explained was his prayer in the middle of ch 10. 'All Israel...' means that all believers will be saved while the ethne Israel unfortunately goes on down through time partially hard. The quote from Isaiah is historical; it has already taken place at Paul's time (obviously future to Isaiah).

There is no prediction at all here that a special direct outreach to Israel will come from God (it already has in Christ), nor of a theocracy in Judea.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the issue at hand. You can't even stay relevant to the topic. Blowhard.