ECT MAD interp chaos #456: You can't be in the New Covenant

andyc

andyc

New member
SaulToPaul said:
Just tell us which tribe you belong to, IP.

Jer 31:31 (KJV)
Heb 8:8 (KJV)

The tribe information will suffice.
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The new covenant is about life in the Spirit. Gentiles are included in this deal.

2 Corinthians 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
 
patrick jane

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
andyc said:
The new covenant is about life in the Spirit. Gentiles are included in this deal.

2 Corinthians 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
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Uh oh, candy has one scripture he just stumbled across
 
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Danoh

New member
SaulToPaul said:
GM, these fraudulent infantile sentence fragments of yours are disconcerting, but also to be expected considering to doctrinal foreclosure with which the red dirt promises have engulfed your thinking, leading you away from the spiritual enterprise found in the NHNE event. Agreed?
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STP, your above tactic gets old real quick.

It's fine for a minute. After which, one would do well to return to actually addressing the issues.
 
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Danoh

New member
andyc said:
The new covenant is about life in the Spirit. Gentiles are included in this deal.

2 Corinthians 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
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Again, in verse 6, the sense is "of the spirit" not "of the Spirit."

The KJV is the right translation...

2 Corinthians 3:2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

The question to ask is what Paul was talking about when brought all that into what he was already talking about?

Not surprisingly, as he was writing to the carnal (heart issue) Corinthians; he was talking about a heart or...a spiritual issue.

Thus, the KJV's correct translation of verse 6 in the lower case - "spirit" not "Spirit."
 
andyc

andyc

New member
Danoh said:
Again, in verse 6, the sense is "of the spirit" not "of the Spirit."

The KJV is the right translation...

2 Corinthians 3:2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

The question to ask is what Paul was talking about when brought all that into what he was already talking about?

Not surprisingly, as he was writing to the carnal (heart issue) Corinthians; he was talking about a heart or...a spiritual issue.

Thus, the KJV's correct translation of verse 6 in the lower case - "spirit" not "Spirit."
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No it is obvious that it is the KJV that is in error, as the subject is the gospel (new covenant) which is a spiritual covenant of grace rather than the restrictive message of law.

As Jesus himself said... "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63

The human spirit is the life of the body, and the spirit comes from God. And so the reasoning here is that the spirit of man is quickened by God's Spirit by receiving the spiritual message of the gospel. To the end that God's Spirit quickens us to eternal life.
 
andyc

andyc

New member
Just a little side note. There are times when the KJV uses a lower case "s" when a passage is talking about the work of the Holy Spirit, rather than the person. Example....

Exodus 31:3 And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,

The Spirit of God is obviously the Holy Spirit, but the KJV use a lower case "s" because it is describing the work of the Holy Spirit within Bazaleel.
 
patrick jane

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
andyc said:
Just a little side note. There are times when the KJV uses a lower case "s" when a passage is talking about the work of the Holy Spirit, rather than the person. Example....

Exodus 31:3 And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,

The Spirit of God is obviously the Holy Spirit, but the KJV use a lower case "s" because it is describing the work of the Holy Spirit within Bazaleel.
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You're pretty sharp, nothing gets past you.
 
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Danoh

New member
andyc said:
Just a little side note. There are times when the KJV uses a lower case "s" when a passage is talking about the work of the Holy Spirit, rather than the person. Example....

Exodus 31:3 And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,

The Spirit of God is obviously the Holy Spirit, but the KJV use a lower case "s" because it is describing the work of the Holy Spirit within Bazaleel.
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Nope. The intended sense or meaning of "I have filled him with the spirit of God" is identified there as the "wisdom, and...understanding, and...knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,"

He was not given the Spirit of God - "for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified" - John 7:39.

In other words God revealed some things to his spirit; gave him His mind or outlook on how He wanted things done.

Read back a bit...for the Scripture's spirit, mind, take, or outlook on its things...

Exodus 25:9 According to all that I shew thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it.

Exodus 25:40 And look that thou make them after their pattern, which was shewed thee in the mount.

Read forward some...

Exodus 31:3 And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,

Meaning?

31:6 And I, behold, I have given with him Aholiab, the son of Ahisamach, of the tribe of Dan: and in the hearts of all that are wise hearted I have put wisdom, that they may make all that I have commanded thee; 31:7 The tabernacle of the congregation, and the ark of the testimony, and the mercy seat that is thereupon, and all the furniture of the tabernacle, 31:8 And the table and his furniture, and the pure candlestick with all his furniture, and the altar of incense,

Numbers 8:4 And this work of the candlestick was of beaten gold, unto the shaft thereof, unto the flowers thereof, was beaten work: according unto the pattern which the LORD had shewed Moses, so he made the candlestick.

He put some information in their spirit, mind, or hearts - He did not give them THE Spirit.

For The Spirit was not yet given.

THIS IS WHY you and those who take issue with MAD (a form of Bible study taught by the Scripture itself).

Because you do not know how to allow the Scripture to give you its spirit, outlook, take, mind, on its things, as to how to approach its mind on its things.

Neither guessing at, nor reading into, nor trying different angles until one of them appears to fit, nor running to endless books about, nor the idiotic "read the passage or chapter ten times" will do.

All those are wisdom in its' own conceits.

To be fair; not that all Mads are always consistent in the Scripture's own approach either...
 
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Danoh

New member
SaulToPaul said:
Then ignore me...


I don't understand his posts, I cannot address any issues.
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Lol, then ignore his posts.

Fact of the matter is that understanding anyone's posts is as much on the poster as on the postee.

Just as is the case when approaching the Scripture.
 
andyc

andyc

New member
Danoh said:
Nope. The intended sense or meaning of "I have filled him with the spirit of God" is identified there as the "wisdom, and...understanding, and...knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,"

He was not given the Spirit of God - "for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified" - John 7:39.

In other words God revealed some things to his spirit; gave him His mind or outlook on how He wanted things done.

Read back a bit...for the Scripture's spirit, mind, take, or outlook on its things...

Exodus 25:9 According to all that I shew thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it.

Exodus 25:40 And look that thou make them after their pattern, which was shewed thee in the mount.

Read forward some...

Exodus 31:3 And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,

Meaning?

31:6 And I, behold, I have given with him Aholiab, the son of Ahisamach, of the tribe of Dan: and in the hearts of all that are wise hearted I have put wisdom, that they may make all that I have commanded thee; 31:7 The tabernacle of the congregation, and the ark of the testimony, and the mercy seat that is thereupon, and all the furniture of the tabernacle, 31:8 And the table and his furniture, and the pure candlestick with all his furniture, and the altar of incense,

Numbers 8:4 And this work of the candlestick was of beaten gold, unto the shaft thereof, unto the flowers thereof, was beaten work: according unto the pattern which the LORD had shewed Moses, so he made the candlestick.

He put some information in their spirit, mind, or hearts - He did not give them THE Spirit.

For The Spirit was not yet given.

THIS IS WHY you and those who take issue with MAD (a form of Bible study taught by the Scripture itself).

Because you do not know how to allow the Scripture to give you its spirit, outlook, take, mind, on its things, as to how to approach its mind on its things.

Neither guessing at, nor reading into, nor trying different angles until one of them appears to fit, nor running to endless books about, nor the idiotic "read the passage or chapter ten times" will do.

All those are wisdom in its' own conceits.

To be fair; not that all Mads are always consistent in the Scripture's own approach either...
Click to expand...

Obviously there is a difference between the Holy Spirit filling people in the work of regeneration, which is a new covenant work of God, and filling people with his Spirit to fulfill a specific calling.
John the baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit from his mothers womb, which negates your reasoning. The difference is that John was not regenerated from a new covenant perspective, he was anointed to preach. But he was still filled with the Spirit.


Now 1Cor 2:12-14 must have given the KJV translators a nightmare, which you'll also struggle with.

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


So, we have received the spirit or Spirit which is of God that we might know the things freely given to us?

The Spirit of God is the Holy Spirit, but the KJV translators obviously understood that the writer is talking about the work of the Spirit, not the person of the Spirit, which is why it's lower case in this translation. The Holy Spirit is referenced by person in the next verse, and so is rightly uppercase "G" for Ghost in this translation. Also in the proceeding verse after that, the Spirit of God is being referenced in person, and so is upper case again.
 
D

Danoh

New member
andyc said:
Obviously there is a difference between the Holy Spirit filling people in the work of regeneration, which is a new covenant work of God, and filling people with his Spirit to fulfill a specific calling.
John the baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit from his mothers womb, which negates your reasoning. The difference is that John was not regenerated from a new covenant perspective, he was anointed to preach. But he was still filled with the Spirit.


Now 1Cor 2:12-14 must have given the KJV translators a nightmare, which you'll also struggle with.

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


So, we have received the spirit or Spirit which is of God that we might know the things freely given to us?

The Spirit of God is the Holy Spirit, but the KJV translators obviously understood that the writer is talking about the work of the Spirit, not the person of the Spirit, which is why it's lower case in this translation. The Holy Spirit is referenced by person in the next verse, and so is rightly uppercase "G" for Ghost in this translation. Also in the proceeding verse after that, the Spirit of God is being referenced in person, and so is upper case again.
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Nope.

Paul is merely relating the origin of what he is talking about.

How that his God given mind of Christ -on things - was revealed to his (Paul's) mind (spirit) by the Spirit.

By what means?

In word imagery given to his spirit by the Spirit.

Word imagery he found the yet carnal in their naturual man perspective Corinthians, nowhere near ready to receive, let alone comprehend said imagery concerning the things of God his God given words were meant to convey to them.

You're like that, andyc.

These things are spiritual - only understood through the Word.

What do you do?

Read your Charismatic take on things into them.

You disagree with this.

You stop there.

It is what it is.

The best toward you on that non Mad thread of yours. I shall continue to respect your wish; not your one sideness.
 
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DAN P

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
Did you know the Gospels, 2 Cor 3-5 and Hebrews are all pre-chopped and that you are barred from entry? You can't have what they offer?

Ask the MAD guys who need to get out, get air, have a beer, and "do the work of an evangelist" so they stop screwing up the Bible with overthought junk-theology.

They think you cant' enjoy the New Covenant. They don't realize it is here now, in Christ now, for all people. It is not a restored Israel. It does indeed sound like it, but it is not. There is not a hint of restoring the land to Israel at any time it is mentioned:

1, the last supper. Forget it.

2, 2 Cor 3-5. Written to mostly Gentiles. Written for all mankind. Justification is for all mankind. God was in Christ for all mankind. MAD is butt-naked, emperor's clothes nakedness and madness, mental illness.

3, Hebrews. Anyone who know the basics of Hebrews knows it is not about regaining the land. If that's not clear from 11, just finish the book's vision of where all this is going: TO AN UNSHAKEABLE KINGDOM of the Jerusalem that is above and nearly here, and the Cloud, and the new high priest. Because it is in a letter where the first third of the book was to prove that THERE WAS A PRIESTHOOD BEFORE THE LAW AND AARON!!! That's the priest we want and have.

MAD is as much fraud as Hilary.
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Hi and what is in the NEW COVENANT REQUIREMENTS with a verse as proof !!

Why should I want to be in the NEW COVENANT ?

So do not BLOVIATE , so give and answer !!

dan p
 
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