ECT MAD error #433: That Israel was offered a restored state

[Right Divider]

What exactly? I don't know one thing here that is not there in the text. And, opinion is only wrong if it is not adhering closely; you have opinions too, so don't put yourself on a pedestal so easily.

Are you are aware of how "the Servant" takes over things in Is 40-66?

What is the veil Paul is talking about in 2 Cor 3-5, and how could it be anything other than thinking all this (material in Isaiah) is not about Christ--the way he does in gobs of quotes?

The first mention of "servant" in Isaiah 40-66 is this:

Isa 41:8-9 (AKJV/PCE)​

(41:8) But thou, Israel, [art] my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend. (41:9) [Thou] whom I have taken from the ends of the earth, and called thee from the chief men thereof, and said unto thee, Thou [art] my servant; I have chosen thee, and not cast thee away.
​

Israel is THIS servant.

Then we find this in chapter 42:

Isa 42:1-4 (AKJV/PCE)​

(42:1) Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, [in whom] my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. (42:2) He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. (42:3) A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. (42:4) He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law. ​

This servant is the Lord Jesus Christ. So BOTH Israel and Jesus are referred to as "my servant".

Isa 42:18-20 (AKJV/PCE)​

(42:18) Hear, ye deaf; and look, ye blind, that ye may see. (42:19) Who [is] blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger [that] I sent? who [is] blind as [he that is] perfect, and blind as the LORD's servant? (42:20) Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not. ​

Which "servant" is this? Clearly this is once again Israel (for "he hearth not").

Isa 43:8-13 (AKJV/PCE)​

(43:8) ¶ Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears. (43:9) Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, [It is] truth. (43:10) Ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I [am] he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. (43:11) I, [even] I, [am] the LORD; and beside me [there is] no saviour. (43:12) I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when [there was] no strange [god] among you: therefore ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I [am] God. (43:13) Yea, before the day [was] I [am] he; and [there is] none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it? ​

Again, this "my servant" is clearly Israel.

Isa 44:1-4 (AKJV/PCE)​

(44:1) Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant; and Israel, whom I have chosen: (44:2) Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, [which] will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen. (44:3) For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring: (44:4) And they shall spring up [as] among the grass, as willows by the water courses. ​

Again, Israel is this "my servant".

Isa 44:21-22 (AKJV/PCE)​

(44:21) ¶ Remember these, O Jacob and Israel; for thou [art] my servant: I have formed thee; thou [art] my servant: O Israel, thou shalt not be forgotten of me. (44:22) I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.
​

More of Jacob/Israel as Gods servant.

Isa 45:1-4 (AKJV/PCE)​

(45:1) Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut; (45:2) I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron: (45:3) And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call [thee] by thy name, [am] the God of Israel. (45:4) For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me. ​

God seems to really love Israel!

Isa 48:20-22 (AKJV/PCE)​

(48:20) ¶ Go ye forth of Babylon, flee ye from the Chaldeans, with a voice of singing declare ye, tell this, utter it [even] to the end of the earth; say ye, The LORD hath redeemed his servant Jacob. (48:21) And they thirsted not [when] he led them through the deserts: he caused the waters to flow out of the rock for them: he clave the rock also, and the waters gushed out. (48:22) [There is] no peace, saith the LORD, unto the wicked.
​

More Jacob... (Israel).

Isa 49:3 (AKJV/PCE)​

(49:3) And said unto me, Thou [art] my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.
​

And the beat goes on....

Isa 49:5-6 (AKJV/PCE)​

(49:5) ¶ And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb [to be] his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength. (49:6) And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth. ​

Here we see the Lord Jesus Christ and guess what? He will RAISES UP the tribes of Jacob and RESTORES the preserved of Israel! He will ALSO give thee a light to the Gentiles!

Then, we eventually get to chapter 60 and read this:

Isa 60:15-16 (AKJV/PCE)​

(60:15) Whereas thou hast been forsaken and hated, so that no man went through [thee], I will make thee an eternal excellency, a joy of many generations. (60:16) Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the LORD [am] thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob. ​

This is speaking of ISRAEL and not the Lord Jesus Christ for it says that the LORD is THY Savior and THY Redeemer!

 

[Right Divider]

That's not my problem. If you are not going to pay attention, why should I?

:dizzy::yawn:

 

[Danoh]

:dizzy::yawn:

That's been his mantra almost since his very first post on TOL :chuckle:

IP - ever the clueless one...ever attempting to clue others in on his cluelessness...

 

[Interplanner]

:dizzy::yawn:

Asking people to write out statements they have done 100x here, is like people who paste whole paragraphs of Scripture here without any comments, and just assume the reader 'sees' exactly the same thing they see.

It is very ignorant, and is not the 'work' of communication here.

 

[Interplanner]

The first mention of "servant" in Isaiah 40-66 is this:

Isa 41:8-9 (AKJV/PCE)​

(41:8) But thou, Israel, [art] my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend. (41:9) [Thou] whom I have taken from the ends of the earth, and called thee from the chief men thereof, and said unto thee, Thou [art] my servant; I have chosen thee, and not cast thee away.
​

Israel is THIS servant.

Then we find this in chapter 42:

Isa 42:1-4 (AKJV/PCE)​

(42:1) Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, [in whom] my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. (42:2) He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. (42:3) A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. (42:4) He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law. ​

This servant is the Lord Jesus Christ. So BOTH Israel and Jesus are referred to as "my servant".

Isa 42:18-20 (AKJV/PCE)​

(42:18) Hear, ye deaf; and look, ye blind, that ye may see. (42:19) Who [is] blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger [that] I sent? who [is] blind as [he that is] perfect, and blind as the LORD's servant? (42:20) Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not. ​

Which "servant" is this? Clearly this is once again Israel (for "he hearth not").

Isa 43:8-13 (AKJV/PCE)​

(43:8) ¶ Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears. (43:9) Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, [It is] truth. (43:10) Ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I [am] he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. (43:11) I, [even] I, [am] the LORD; and beside me [there is] no saviour. (43:12) I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when [there was] no strange [god] among you: therefore ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I [am] God. (43:13) Yea, before the day [was] I [am] he; and [there is] none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it? ​

Again, this "my servant" is clearly Israel.

Isa 44:1-4 (AKJV/PCE)​

(44:1) Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant; and Israel, whom I have chosen: (44:2) Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, [which] will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen. (44:3) For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring: (44:4) And they shall spring up [as] among the grass, as willows by the water courses. ​

Again, Israel is this "my servant".

Isa 44:21-22 (AKJV/PCE)​

(44:21) ¶ Remember these, O Jacob and Israel; for thou [art] my servant: I have formed thee; thou [art] my servant: O Israel, thou shalt not be forgotten of me. (44:22) I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.
​

More of Jacob/Israel as Gods servant.

Isa 45:1-4 (AKJV/PCE)​

(45:1) Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut; (45:2) I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron: (45:3) And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call [thee] by thy name, [am] the God of Israel. (45:4) For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me. ​

God seems to really love Israel!

Isa 48:20-22 (AKJV/PCE)​

(48:20) ¶ Go ye forth of Babylon, flee ye from the Chaldeans, with a voice of singing declare ye, tell this, utter it [even] to the end of the earth; say ye, The LORD hath redeemed his servant Jacob. (48:21) And they thirsted not [when] he led them through the deserts: he caused the waters to flow out of the rock for them: he clave the rock also, and the waters gushed out. (48:22) [There is] no peace, saith the LORD, unto the wicked.
​

More Jacob... (Israel).

Isa 49:3 (AKJV/PCE)​

(49:3) And said unto me, Thou [art] my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.
​

And the beat goes on....

Isa 49:5-6 (AKJV/PCE)​

(49:5) ¶ And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb [to be] his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength. (49:6) And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth. ​

Here we see the Lord Jesus Christ and guess what? He will RAISES UP the tribes of Jacob and RESTORES the preserved of Israel! He will ALSO give thee a light to the Gentiles!

Then, we eventually get to chapter 60 and read this:

Isa 60:15-16 (AKJV/PCE)​

(60:15) Whereas thou hast been forsaken and hated, so that no man went through [thee], I will make thee an eternal excellency, a joy of many generations. (60:16) Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the LORD [am] thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob. ​

This is speaking of ISRAEL and not the Lord Jesus Christ for it says that the LORD is THY Savior and THY Redeemer!

All of which is never said to be about the ethne Israel in the NT! It is about how Christ does this for Israel, or is the person speaking, or is the light (and Israel/believers can be part of that light by preaching him). It becomes the mission of God to the nations, because 'it is too small a thing to restore the fortunes of Israel'.

btw, sometimes there are inner-trinity passages here in Isaiah where God and Christ speak...

We are CHRISTIANS and no longer read the OT as though the NT or Christ's seminar did not exist.

Otherwise, Paul would never have written chapters like Rom 15 or 16 and said that something (the Gospel and the preaching of the Gospel to the nations) was embedded in the OT but only recently understood.

What is interesting at the end of the day is to compare your position ('as though the NT did not exist') with the best of conservative Judaism today, which places almost no authority on the prophets, except on ethical things! Interesting company!
Perhaps they are more clearly about the mission than we thought!

 

[Interplanner]

RD:
As for Is 41, I guess you don't know about Gal 3. The Isaiah material is one of several passages that are true about those who are in Christ, because believers are Abraham's seed in Christ, as Gal 3 says.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

The first mention of "servant" in Isaiah 40-66 is this:

Isa 41:8-9 (AKJV/PCE)​

(41:8) But thou, Israel, [art] my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend. (41:9) [Thou] whom I have taken from the ends of the earth, and called thee from the chief men thereof, and said unto thee, Thou [art] my servant; I have chosen thee, and not cast thee away.
​

Israel is THIS servant.

Then we find this in chapter 42:

Isa 42:1-4 (AKJV/PCE)​

(42:1) Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, [in whom] my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. (42:2) He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. (42:3) A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. (42:4) He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law. ​

This servant is the Lord Jesus Christ. So BOTH Israel and Jesus are referred to as "my servant".

Isa 42:18-20 (AKJV/PCE)​

(42:18) Hear, ye deaf; and look, ye blind, that ye may see. (42:19) Who [is] blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger [that] I sent? who [is] blind as [he that is] perfect, and blind as the LORD's servant? (42:20) Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not. ​

Which "servant" is this? Clearly this is once again Israel (for "he hearth not").

Isa 43:8-13 (AKJV/PCE)​

(43:8) ¶ Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears. (43:9) Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, [It is] truth. (43:10) Ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I [am] he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. (43:11) I, [even] I, [am] the LORD; and beside me [there is] no saviour. (43:12) I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when [there was] no strange [god] among you: therefore ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I [am] God. (43:13) Yea, before the day [was] I [am] he; and [there is] none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it? ​

Again, this "my servant" is clearly Israel.

Isa 44:1-4 (AKJV/PCE)​

(44:1) Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant; and Israel, whom I have chosen: (44:2) Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, [which] will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen. (44:3) For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring: (44:4) And they shall spring up [as] among the grass, as willows by the water courses. ​

Again, Israel is this "my servant".

Isa 44:21-22 (AKJV/PCE)​

(44:21) ¶ Remember these, O Jacob and Israel; for thou [art] my servant: I have formed thee; thou [art] my servant: O Israel, thou shalt not be forgotten of me. (44:22) I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.
​

More of Jacob/Israel as Gods servant.

Isa 45:1-4 (AKJV/PCE)​

(45:1) Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut; (45:2) I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron: (45:3) And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call [thee] by thy name, [am] the God of Israel. (45:4) For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me. ​

God seems to really love Israel!

Isa 48:20-22 (AKJV/PCE)​

(48:20) ¶ Go ye forth of Babylon, flee ye from the Chaldeans, with a voice of singing declare ye, tell this, utter it [even] to the end of the earth; say ye, The LORD hath redeemed his servant Jacob. (48:21) And they thirsted not [when] he led them through the deserts: he caused the waters to flow out of the rock for them: he clave the rock also, and the waters gushed out. (48:22) [There is] no peace, saith the LORD, unto the wicked.
​

More Jacob... (Israel).

Isa 49:3 (AKJV/PCE)​

(49:3) And said unto me, Thou [art] my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.
​

And the beat goes on....

Isa 49:5-6 (AKJV/PCE)​

(49:5) ¶ And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb [to be] his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength. (49:6) And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth. ​

Here we see the Lord Jesus Christ and guess what? He will RAISES UP the tribes of Jacob and RESTORES the preserved of Israel! He will ALSO give thee a light to the Gentiles!

Then, we eventually get to chapter 60 and read this:

Isa 60:15-16 (AKJV/PCE)​

(60:15) Whereas thou hast been forsaken and hated, so that no man went through [thee], I will make thee an eternal excellency, a joy of many generations. (60:16) Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the LORD [am] thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob. ​

This is speaking of ISRAEL and not the Lord Jesus Christ for it says that the LORD is THY Savior and THY Redeemer!

Scripture gives it that Jesus Christ and His Bride is in focus, the elect, not Israel of the flesh, and certainly not the capitalist man made nation of the Jews today.

Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
Rev 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.




LA

 

[Interplanner]

I don't know what the problem with capitalism is and most of the founders of 1948 were socialists or communists.

"Israel will suck from the breasts of the Gentiles" is certainly fulfilled in Rom 15: the physical things the nations have were used to help Jews during the famine in the 1st century.

In general, we must use the NT's finality about all these things--who Israel actually is and the seed and the blessings, and the mission.

 

[Right Divider]

Asking people to write out statements they have done 100x here, is like people who paste whole paragraphs of Scripture here without any comments, and just assume the reader 'sees' exactly the same thing they see.

It is very ignorant, and is not the 'work' of communication here.

I'd settle for a LINK. I never asked you to re-type anything.

 

[Interplanner]

I'd settle for a LINK. I never asked you to re-type anything.

Go ahead and search the threads. why should I do that kind of work for you?

 

[Right Divider]

I don't know what the problem with capitalism is and most of the founders of 1948 were socialists or communists.

"Israel will suck from the breasts of the Gentiles" is certainly fulfilled in Rom 15: the physical things the nations have were used to help Jews during the famine in the 1st century.

In general, we must use the NT's finality about all these things--who Israel actually is and the seed and the blessings, and the mission.

You always force your OPINION about what the scripture should say back on the scripture. Like your insane "interpretation" of "toxic" waters in Psalm 23.

 

[Right Divider]

Go ahead and search the threads. why should I do that kind of work for you?

Because it's a waste of my time.

 

[Interplanner]

You always force your OPINION about what the scripture should say back on the scripture. Like your insane "interpretation" of "toxic" waters in Psalm 23.

There is no interp about it. Those kinds of waters kill animals in the desert.

Here's another: "I will lift I my eyes to the hills; from whence does my help come?" This has been printed for years on pictures of the Rockies or Cascades or Yosemite. As though there was some friendly power about the mountains.

The meaning of the text is the opposite. The mountains of Judea were the problem; they were where thieves and bandits hung out, yet most people had to go through them to get to the 3 festivals. The person's help came from the Lord, not the mountains.

It is extremely easy to come up with the opposite meaning when you live 2000 years and 8000 miles away from an ancient writing.

 

[Interplanner]

Because it's a waste of my time.

Then you are stuck in your ignorance. I thought you were a Christian and cared. I guess not. I have been here 2 years, and all I know about you now is that you care so little, you won't even read the next thread to see what I believe.

The amount of work is not the question. You have been taught a fraud and you don't want to learn that it is.

 

[patrick jane]

Then you are stuck in your ignorance. I thought you were a Christian and cared. I guess not. I have been here 2 years, and all I know about you now is that you care so little, you won't even read the next thread to see what I believe.

The amount of work is not the question. You have been taught a fraud and you don't want to learn that it is.

You're a fraud, you joined in May of 2015 - you haven't been here for two years

 

[Right Divider]

There is no interp about it. Those kinds of waters kill animals in the desert.

So to you, it is completely irrelevant what the WORDS being translated ACTUALLY ARE?

Perhaps it should be "toxic tofu"!

Seriously, is this another teaching of your Vander Laan?

Why are there GREEN pastures? Perhaps you want to change that too.

You need to get some real help.

Here's another: "I will lift I my eyes to the hills; from whence does my help come?" This has been printed for years on pictures of the Rockies or Cascades or Yosemite. As though there was some friendly power about the mountains.

Like usual, you go off on some irrelevant tangent.

The meaning of the text is the opposite. The mountains of Judea were the problem; they were where thieves and bandits hung out, yet most people had to go through them to get to the 3 festivals. The person's help came from the Lord, not the mountains.

It is extremely easy to come up with the opposite meaning when you live 2000 years and 8000 miles away from an ancient writing.

So, as per your MO, the ACTUAL text of the scripture is not to be trusted, only YOUR vain philosophical opinion.

Seriously, check yourself in to a good mental health institute.

 

[Interplanner]

You're a fraud, you joined in May of 2015 - you haven't been here for two years

OK, on the years, but I don't accept personal remarks. You call yourself a Christian, too, I suppose, yet you can't discuss a proposition; all you can do is slam a person. And you want people to become part of your movement? Wow.

Do you have a specific belief or proposition, not a person, to discuss?

Do fraud's believe God was in Christ reconciling the debt of man's sin? Well, see I Cor 12.

 

[patrick jane]

OK, on the years, but I don't accept personal remarks. You call yourself a Christian, too, I suppose, yet you can't discuss a proposition; all you can do is slam a person. And you want people to become part of your movement? Wow.

Do you have a specific belief or proposition, not a person, to discuss?

Do fraud's believe God was in Christ reconciling the debt of man's sin? Well, see I Cor 12.

You called MAD a fraud -

 

[Interplanner]

You called MAD a fraud -

yes, that's not calling a person a fraud. Or a moron.

 

[Interplanner]

yes, that's not calling a person a fraud. Or a moron.

Nice to know I won that one!