ECT "Lordship 'Salvation'"-perverting the gospel of Christ

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God's Truth said:
Many, not all are made righteous.
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ONCE AGAIN, who said OTHERWISE?

God's Truth said:
Those who obey are made righteous.
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I guess that no many HOW many times you're shown the scripture, you reject God's Word!

That is EXACTLY what the scripture does NOT SAY.
Rom 5:17-19 (AKJV/PCE)​
(5:17) For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) (5:18) Therefore as by the offence of one [judgment came] upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [the free gift came] upon all men unto justification of life. (5:19) For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. ​

God's Truth said:
Those who do not obey will not be made righteous.
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Once AGAIN you lie and pervert the scripture.
 
Derf

Derf

Well-known member
Right Divider said:
Jesus told a fisherman to do it!
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If Jesus required (for salvation) everyone to sell all they had and give it to the poor, then no one would be saved unless they did that, right? Is that not the argument?

Then take Zaccheus for an example. When he said he would sell half (not all) of what he had and give it to the poor (Luke 19:8), why did Jesus say "today salvation has come to this house" (Luke 19:9)?
 
Derf

Derf

Well-known member
Tambora said:
That's what we keep telling her every time she states that we need to obey everything Christ says.
Glad you joined the club.
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Not sure what club I've just joined.
Tambora said:
GT has never provided a list of what needs to be done.
She can't, and she knows it.
But still she keeps repeating that one must obey everything Christ said.
As you have just pointed out also, she is wrong.
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I pointed out that she doesn't say we have to obey everything Jesus said, but those things that apply to us. I think she will agree with me on this, but maybe she can jump in and answer the question.
Tambora said:
Hardly.

She teaches her works (along with those of Christ) save her and are necessary to keep her saved.
She teaches that the Father and the Son are the same person, and that it was the Father which came as Christ and died on the cross.
She teaches that God is done with the nation of Israel.
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Except possibly for that first one, the other two, though important, are not at issue in this thread.
Tambora said:
None of those things are true.


Those things aren't gnats.
Those things go against what scripture teaches.
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see above--if the thread concept means anything at all, it means that we should stick to the points, as best we can, that the OP brings up. Petty bickering and invective don't usually do that, but redirect us all to less profitable pursuits. I'd like to think we can discuss these things in humility and sincere desire to see the others' position and determine its truth value, even if they don't always exhibit the best command of its expression.
Tambora said:
We will not be silent about her stupidity.
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If it was so stupid, silence would suffice. Since you and others have made such a big deal about it, you've given voice to her message.
 
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Derf said:
If Jesus required (for salvation) everyone to sell all they had and give it to the poor, then no one would be saved unless they did that, right? Is that not the argument?
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I don't know of anyone that says that this was a requirement for salvation.

The point was that this was a COMMAND of Jesus and GT says that WE must OBEY every command of Jesus.

Derf said:
Then take Zaccheus for an example. When he said he would sell half (not all) of what he had and give it to the poor (Luke 19:8), why did Jesus say "today salvation has come to this house" (Luke 19:9)?
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Irrelevant to the point about "obeying every command of Jesus".

P.S. Also note that salvation is relative to the CONTEXT of the scripture that uses that word. Salvation does NOT mean eternal life every single time it is found in scripture.
 
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ZacharyB said:
Most of you have seen several times the 10 or so passages re:
the necessity to "practice righteousness" for salvation!
Of course, I can always post 'em again, if requested to do so.
Meanwhile, just continue enjoyin' your sinnin' unto perdition.
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You don't even KNOW the people posting here and YET you accuse THEM of SIN!

You are a sorry self-righteous Luke 18:10 Pharisee!
 
Derf

Derf

Well-known member
Right Divider said:
I don't know of anyone that says that this was a requirement for salvation.

The point was that this was a COMMAND of Jesus and GT says that WE must OBEY every command of Jesus.
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GT is accused, if I understand correctly, of saying that we must obey every command of Jesus in order to be saved. Is that not what is going on here? If all she is doing is saying that we must obey every command of Jesus, with no particular goal in mind, why do you care what she says--what authority does she have over you?

I believe what you are saying is that since GT says we must obey every command of Jesus, then she should be consistent and obey the command to sell all she possesses.

I think GT would agree that that particular command is not for everyone, at least not in that strict form. An argument could be made that the sell-all-you-possess command is a specific rendering of a more general command to remove all idols from your life ("Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength").

If so, then she is right to tell people to do such (Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength), don't you think? Why would anyone in this part of the forum argue with that command of Jesus?

Right Divider said:
Irrelevant to the point about "obeying every command of Jesus".
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I don't think so. If the commands of Jesus were to be obeyed by those that followed him in that day, and if those commands differed to different people in that day, then "every command" is caveated in context, so they (each and every command) can't gain more weight today, than they had back then, can they, at least not without ignoring the context, which I'm hopeful you wouldn't want to do?
Right Divider said:
P.S. Also note that salvation is relative to the CONTEXT of the scripture that uses that word. Salvation does NOT mean eternal life every single time it is found in scripture.
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So what do you think is meant by the use of "salvation" in the Zaccheus narrative?
 
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Derf said:
GT is accused, if I understand correctly, of saying that we must obey every command of Jesus in order to be saved. Is that not what is going on here? If all she is doing is saying that we must obey every command of Jesus, with no particular goal in mind, why do you care what she says--what authority does she have over you?
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Yes, she has said that only those that obey every command of Jesus will be saved.

Derf said:
I believe what you are saying is that since GT says we must obey every command of Jesus, then she should be consistent and obey the command to sell all she possesses.
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I'm not the only one that has noticed her illogical inconsistency.

Derf said:
I think GT would agree that that particular command is not for everyone, at least not in that strict form. An argument could be made that the sell-all-you-possess command is a specific rendering of a more general command to remove all idols from your life ("Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength").
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So says BOTH and therefore contradicts herself.

Derf said:
If so, then she is right to tell people to do such (Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength), don't you think? Why would anyone in this part of the forum argue with that command of Jesus?
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We don't. She thinks that she is righteous and therefore deserved to be saved. We know that nobody deserve to be save and that it is ONLY but the GRACE of God that we get saved. Grace is the exactly opposite of "getting what we deserve".

Derf said:
I don't think so. If the commands of Jesus were to be obeyed by those that followed him in that day, and if those commands differed to different people in that day, then "every command" is caveated in context, so they (each and every command) can't gain more weight today, than they had back then, can they, at least not without ignoring the context, which I'm hopeful you wouldn't want to do?
So what do you think is meant by the use of "salvation" in the Zaccheus narrative?
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GT has tons of trouble with context, as do most of the people that post here.

Regarding that passage:

Luke 19:9-10 (AKJV/PCE)​
(19:9) And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham. (19:10) For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
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Perhaps Jesus is talking about Himself, or that Zacchaeus had come to faith.
 
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serpentdove said:
If one claims to be a Christian, :blabla: we can expect him to follow Christ (1 Jn 1:7). :plain:
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It completely depends on HOW you follow Him.

If you try to follow Him as the minister of the circumcision (as most here do), then you'd be wrong.

If you follow Him as the risen and glorified Lord Jesus that appeared to Paul, then you'd be on the right track.
 
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