Learning More About God by reading the Torah

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Jacob

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The old covenant, or the first covenant, spoken of in Jeremiah and Hebrews, was made with the nation of Israel at Mount Sinai, Mount Horeb, by God and also being through the Prophet Moses as God used Moses as well as speaking to them Himself.
This first covenant was broken by the people, for which there was a need for a second covenant, a new covenant. See Jeremiah 31:31-34 NASB.

There are other covenants, even before the covenant God made with the nation of Israel at Mount Sinai, but this is the one called the first when another covenant was mentioned, a new covenant, a second covenant. It follows the first, and it was made with the house of Israel and the house of Judah. It is God's law written on hearts and minds. It came in Jesus Christ. Yeshua HaMashiach.
 

Jacob

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Hebrews 8:7 NASB - 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.
 

Jacob

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Jeremiah 31:31-34 NASB - 31 "Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them," declares the LORD. 33 "But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 "They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them," declares the LORD, "for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."
 

Jacob

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All Scripture here in the New Testament, where Paul wrote to Timothy, refers to the TaNaKh, Jewish Scripture, Sacred Scripture, Holy Scripture, Hebrew Scripture, the Jewish Bible and the Hebrew Bible. Christians often understand this to be the Old Testament.
2 Timothy 3:16-17 NASB - 16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
 

Jdorman

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Israel was fooled by a golden calf. But perhaps you have been fooled into believing that three Gods are one God.

Just throwing this out there, it is totally possible to hold Yeshua as the Messiah and still maintain that God was not three people. This also does not mean that Jesus (Yeshua, YHWH-Savior) was not both fully God and fully man.

There is one God, who has revealed Himself as our Father, in His Son Jesus Christ, and as the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ is God manifested in flesh. He is both God and man. (See Deuteronomy 6:4 (Shema); Ephesians 4:4-6; Colossians 2:9; I Timothy 3:16.)
 

Jdorman

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God's instruction to us is found in the Torah. Many have neglected Torah study. But we should study the Torah more. By it we learn to live the way God wants us to live.

I agree, while we are Christians, our faith is still built on Judaic principles.
 

TweetyBird

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You may know about the Christian Old Testament. The Jewish Scriptures are the TaNaKh. We also have the Apostle's Writings or the Jewish New Testament.

The OT is a TaNaKh according to Rabbinical Talmudic Judaism. The OT is not divided into three divisions. It in one complete document. For Christians, that includes the NT - all 66 books are altogether one inspired Scripture.

The TaNaKh and the Old Testament are different, but they refer to the same scriptures. They are simply scrolls or books arranged or ordered differently.

They are not different. They contain the exact same books, the division is one put there by man, not by God.

I do not know what you are saying about the Talmud and the TaNaKh. The Talmud was written after the New Testament which came after the Old Testament or the TaNaKh.

There was no division known as the "TaNaKh" until the Talmud divided it in order to come up with reading cycles. You don't seem to understand that the Talmud is NOT Scripture, does not support Scripture, is not inspired, cannot give us any information on how to define the OT, is a complete work of man, not given by God, not endorsed by God. You are promoting a writing that rejects Jesus Christ, while professing to be follower of Jesus. It does not make sense. You are trying to blend non-Christian ideas and concepts with the Bible. All you end up doing is contaminating the purity of God's Word.
 

TweetyBird

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2 Timothy 3:16-17 NASB - 16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

You forgot the previous verses. Paul was explaining to Timothy that all Scripture is inspired and that what he learned as a youth was the foundation for learning about Jesus Christ, why He came, and what His finished work on the cross pointed to. Paul was not suggesting that Tim go back to the Law of Moses and start keeping it.
 

Lilstu

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Our faith comes from Jesus Christ, not from Judaic principles. The NT is a complete antithesis of Judaism.

Luke 24:44 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Now He said to them, “These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”
 

Jacob

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Just throwing this out there, it is totally possible to hold Yeshua as the Messiah and still maintain that God was not three people. This also does not mean that Jesus (Yeshua, YHWH-Savior) was not both fully God and fully man.

There is one God, who has revealed Himself as our Father, in His Son Jesus Christ, and as the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ is God manifested in flesh. He is both God and man. (See Deuteronomy 6:4 (Shema); Ephesians 4:4-6; Colossians 2:9; I Timothy 3:16.)
1 Timothy 3:16 NASB - 16 By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh, Was vindicated in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Proclaimed among the nations, Believed on in the world, Taken up in glory.
 

Jacob

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The OT is a TaNaKh according to Rabbinical Talmudic Judaism. The OT is not divided into three divisions. It in one complete document. For Christians, that includes the NT - all 66 books are altogether one inspired Scripture.



They are not different. They contain the exact same books, the division is one put there by man, not by God.



There was no division known as the "TaNaKh" until the Talmud divided it in order to come up with reading cycles. You don't seem to understand that the Talmud is NOT Scripture, does not support Scripture, is not inspired, cannot give us any information on how to define the OT, is a complete work of man, not given by God, not endorsed by God. You are promoting a writing that rejects Jesus Christ, while professing to be follower of Jesus. It does not make sense. You are trying to blend non-Christian ideas and concepts with the Bible. All you end up doing is contaminating the purity of God's Word.
I am not talking about the Talmud. I own a TaNaKh. You can learn about Jesus from the TaNaKh.

See: The TaNaKh - English Book Names

Which came first? The TaNaKh or the Old Testament?

Old Testament

You can study both the TaNaKh and the New Testament. There is the Jewish Bible, the Hebrew Bible, the Christian Bible, the Bible. Do you study the Jewish New Testament? The terms Old Testament and New Testament refer to scripture. The old covenant is spoken of in the Torah. It is the covenant God made with the nation of Israel at Mount Sinai. The new covenant is spoken of in Jeremiah. Read Jeremiah 31:31-34 NASB.

Jeremiah 31:31-34 NASB - 31 "Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them," declares the LORD. 33 "But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 "They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them," declares the LORD, "for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."

The Israel Bible. Jeremiah 31:31-34.

Jeremiah 31:31 NASB - 31 "Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,

Luke 22:20 NASB - 20 And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood.

1 Corinthians 11:25 NASB - 25 In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

2 Corinthians 3:6 NASB - 6 who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Hebrews 8:8, 13 NASB - 8 For finding fault with them, He says,"BEHOLD, DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD,WHEN I WILL EFFECT A NEW COVENANTWITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH; ... 13 When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

Hebrews 9:15 NASB - 15 For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Hebrews 12:24 NASB - 24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.
 

Jacob

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You forgot the previous verses. Paul was explaining to Timothy that all Scripture is inspired and that what he learned as a youth was the foundation for learning about Jesus Christ, why He came, and what His finished work on the cross pointed to. Paul was not suggesting that Tim go back to the Law of Moses and start keeping it.
These verses are not forgotten. I am glad you know about what came before. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 NASB was memorized by me as a child. These verses begin with "All Scripture". I can post the chapter here. I believe you are referring to the two verses prior to the ones I posted. As for Timothy observing God's commands as a Christian, I believe that he did. His mother was a Jew but his father was a Greek. Paul had Timothy circumcised. His circumcision was according to the Law of Moses. I see no other way to think about it.

2 Timothy 3:1-17 NASB - 1 But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. 2 For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, 4 treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these. 6 For among them are those who enter into households and captivate weak women weighed down with sins, led on by various impulses, 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men of depraved mind, rejected in regard to the faith. 9 But they will not make further progress; for their folly will be obvious to all, just as Jannes's and Jambres's folly was also. 10 Now you followed my teaching, conduct, purpose, faith, patience, love, perseverance, 11 persecutions, and sufferings, such as happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium and at Lystra; what persecutions I endured, and out of them all the Lord rescued me! 12 Indeed, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted. 13 But evil men and impostors will proceed from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14 You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
 

TweetyBird

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I believe you are wrong, but if you wish to warn others you either will learn of your error or improve someone's understanding.

You are the one who is making stuff up.

The Ten Commandments are the covenant God made with the nation of Israel at Mount Sinai through the prophet Moses.

The Nevi'im does not include Moses. So why are you calling him a prophet?

What do you mean by God's commandments and the Mosaic Law? What do you mean by new commandments in Christ?

The commandments of Christ are brand new. The commandments of Moses have passed away.

Torah does not end with the first five books of the TaNaKh. It includes all of scripture. When we refer to the first five books we call them the Torah. These are also called the Written Torah.



I have referred to the first five books of the Bible as the Law of Moses. The first five books are called the Law, the Five Books of Moses, and the Pentateuch. By the Law, we mean God's Instruction, Torah, or the Law of Moses.

You seem confused.

There is a covenant God made with the nation of Israel at Mount Sinai through the prophet Moses.

Exodus 34:28 NASB - 28 So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did not eat bread or drink water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

Deuteronomy 4:13 NASB - 13 "So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, that is, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Deuteronomy 10:4 NASB - 4 "He wrote on the tablets, like the former writing, the Ten Commandments which the LORD had spoken to you on the mountain from the midst of the fire on the day of the assembly; and the LORD gave them to me.

When this covenant is referred to as the old covenant, is the law associated with it referred to as the old covenant law or old covenant law?

Those laws are not the only laws/commandments given by God to Moses that are part of the covenant to Israel. There are 613 commandments by Rabbinical Count. The 10, plus the Book of the Law/The Book of the Covenant all mean that same covenant - it covers all the commandments, all the curses, judgments, and blessings.


All Scripture here in the New Testament, where Paul wrote to Timothy, refers to the TaNaKh, Jewish Scripture, Sacred Scripture, Holy Scripture, Hebrew Scripture, the Jewish Bible and the Hebrew Bible. Christians often understand this to be the Old Testament.

It also included what Jesus said in the Gospels which are also Scripture, and also what Paul wrote is called Scripture.
 
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