KJ-ONLYite claims: Enyart does not believe The Bible is inerrant

[robycop3]

To all

I have nothing against the KJV since I preach from it, but cannot hold to the KJV Only viewpoint. I prefer the NASV or ASV. I know that KJV Only people are trying topreserve the Word of God. But much of the accertains they made are not based on sound scholarship nor facts. But I will say one thing with all of our Bible translations and Bible study tools today, we are less spiritual than than we were 30 or 40 years ago. Our parents and grandparents were better Christians than we are today. There is less spirituality in churches today. There is less presence of the power of God in most churches today. 75 percent of Southern Baptist Churches are plateaued or dying.

God Bless
John

I doubt if it has much , if anything, to do with choice of BVs, John...it's from being conditioned by the "New Morality(which is actually the old immorality) all around us, which causes many a Christian to be almost ashamed to preach the Gospel...or it drives some of them to the other extreme, preaching so much that they drive people off.

During the time of King James, the British had an assortment of BVs from which to choose, but only a few "study helps". And during that time, and the times immediately following, when the AV was the only version allowed to be printed,a quick check of history will show that the British were as corrupt overall as they've ever been in their history.

 

[Peter A V]

robycop3 misrepresents again,as usual.

robycop3 misrepresents again,as usual.

During the time of King James, the British had an assortment of BVs from which to choose, but only a few "study helps". And during that time, and the times immediately following, when the AV was the only version allowed to be printed,a quick check of history will show that the British were as corrupt overall as they've ever been in their history.

Some of the stuff you post is great robycop3,but on this point,for some reason you always misrepresent.why is that?plus you give no proof for you slurs.Whats up with that?
KJV readings have been around all throuhout history,and have always out numbered the LXX[72]crowd.
Yes people are corrupt,all around the world,but when you put godly men together,that pray for THREE years before starting the project,guess what?Good stuff happens.

I just dare to believe what the word of God says about the word of God.

 

[Peter A V]

Bibliolatry and Idolatry???

Bibliolatry and Idolatry???

It is a form of idolatry.
Bibliolatry --- Bible worship
I will not compromise with you on this.

I do commend you for taking a stand,and not compromizing.We can only go by the light that we have,or can possibly believe.I have no beef with you on that account at all.
May God richly bless your work for the Lord in all things.

It may be,however that you have missunderstood me,in reguards to the 1611 AV.
This is not idolatry at all.In fact,those that would use more than one version,are the real ones that are into idlolatry.Idolatry is nothing more than a false god.
With one version,Guess what?God and his word is the final authority.But here is the key,and we learn of it right in the garden of Eden.Yea,Hath God said?
Now learn this,whenever there are conflicting authorities,as there was in the garden with the serpent challenging God's words,WE BECOME THE ARBITER.Why?Because now we are CHOOSING which authority to follow.And so,mankind usurps the authority of God.Who'd a thunk it?
Follow the yellow brick road,as it were.She went of to see the wizard,we to God Almighty.
When there is a fork in the road that also APPEARS yellow at first glance,many get sucked in,because they did not listen and obey.Otherwise confusion is the order of the day.We all know that God is not the author of confusion.Ever since the new versions came upon the scene,that has been the norm here,in the church.Cofusion,and every evil work.
Satan is alive and well in the confusion business.We are to speak the same things,says God's words.Why?So that there is no divisions among you.
Modern Bible studies are now just pumping out confusion,because every person has a private take on a certain verse,mostly because of the version he or she follows.They all become as gods.This is because they are being the arbiter and deciding for themselves just which rendering is good,and which rendering is evil.

So,insead of having the word of God correcting us,we correct the word of God,showing no fear of God and his words.Shame.We need to instantly repent of that.
We desparately need the correction and judgement of God and his words in this day and age.
Different versions becomes a Bible Babel,dividing the Church.Satan would like to be like the most high.
According to the Bible,divisions are caused by heresies.1Cor 11:18,19.Plus it reveals just who is the approved.
Satan has not changed his tactic under the guise of the TREE OF KNOWLEDGE.
This is where many good godly men have been duped.
This tree of knowledge is nothing more than bait,good,pleasent,& to be desired to make one wise.Don't forget,that the initial temptation is never to to be bad.But that is the outcome.The temptation is always to usurp the authority of God Almighty.
Today,it is occuring in the churches under the form of subtly dismanteling the authority of the words of God,and redirects it over to the words of men.Man-made sources.
The Greek lexICON is the ICON of choice today,to make one wise,and to change God's authoritative voice.
We are just like the Laodicean Church,Luke Warm,Can't hear God's voice.Now the LORD is outside the church doors knocking to come in.

We are to go outside the camp,bearing his reproach.But that hurts.No person likes ridicule,now,do they?
Jesus said ;The words that I speak unto you,they are spirit.With lots of the words of God gone out of the new versions,the flesh takes over.All we are left with is ,a form of Godliness,without the power thereof.
There are four ways the Devil keeps us from the words of God and steals them.

1]Persecution and burnings,such as Diocletian till 1400's.
2]new Perversions,that rip out some 64,000 words of the prescious word of God.
3]Correcting the Bible in the pulpit by saying "A better reading would be"...the Bible is misleading here...the Greek says...
4]The fourth way that the Devil steals the words of God from out hearts is by making it it hard to read and memorize and study each day in our daily devotions.He likes to occupy our time with things.

 

[Peter A V]

This last post was gleaned from Riplinger's Which Bible is God's Word?

 

[Peter A V]

Peter A V is wrong?

Peter A V is wrong?

He also falsely defends the LXX[72]But he USES the KJV tranlation,but claims that the KJV to be false time and again,but gives NO PROOF.[/i]

That's an outright LIE. I have supplied the proof that EASTER in Acts 12:4 is wrong. And the misstarement in Acts 5:3, "slew and hanged", requires no elaboration.
You have no originals,so there is reason to doubt.
Besides Easter is right in this spot.one has just misunderstood the answer.

 

[robycop3]

The KJVOs have no answers!

The KJVOs have no answers!

Peter A V: [pi]Some of the stuff you post is great robycop3,but on this point,for some reason you always misrepresent.why is that?plus you give no proof for you slurs.[/i]

Actually, I give PLENTY of proof, but you KJVOs don't wanna recognize it because the KJVO myth is more important to many KJVOs than the TRUTH.

Was Jesus slain and then hanged on a tree, or does the rest of Scripture say He was hanged and then died? Was He dead when He was nailed to the cross or not?




Whats up with that?
KJV readings have been around all throuhout history,and have always out numbered the LXX[72]crowd.
Yes people are corrupt,all around the world,but when you put godly men together,that pray for THREE years before starting the project,guess what?Good stuff happens.

I just dare to believe what the word of God says about the word of God.

I DO and you DON'T, in many cases. Where does GOD say to use only the KJV? The whole KJVO thingie is amn-made heresy, started by a SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST in 1930. No one has been able to provide any evidence to the contrary. Sure, there were pseudo-KJVO commentaries, but how well-known were they among the general public?

Your lack of knowledge about the LXX shows you haven't studied the AV which you include in your nick. Here's what their translators had to say about the LXX in their preface, "To The Reader" in the AV 1611:

While God would be known only in Jacob, and have his Name great in Israel, and in none other place, while the dew lay on Gideon's fleece only, and all the earth besides was dry; [See S.August.lib.12. contra Faust.c.32.] then for one and the same people, which spake all of them the language of Canaan, that is, Hebrew, one and the same original in Hebrew was sufficient.
But when the fullness of time drew near, that the Sun of righteousness, the Son of God, should come into the world, whom God ordained to be a reconciliation through faith in his blood, not of the Jew only, but also of the Greek, yea, of all them that were scattered abroad; then, lo, it pleased the Lord to stir up the spirit of a Greek prince (Greek for descent and language), even of Ptolomy Philadelph, King of Egypt, to procure the translating of the Book of God out of Hebrew into Greek.
This is the translation of the Seventy interpreters, commonly so called, which prepared the way for our Saviour among the Gentiles by written preaching, as Saint John Baptist did among the Jews by vocal.
For the Grecians, being desirous of learning, were not wont to suffer books of worth to lie moulding in kings' libraries, but had many of their servants, ready scribes, to copy them out, and so they were dispersed and made common.
Again, the Greek tongue was well known and made familiar to most inhabitants in Asia, by reason of the conquest that there the Grecians had made, as also by the colonies, which thither they had sent.
For the same causes also it was well understood in many places of Europe, yea, and of Africa too.
Therefore the word of God being set forth in Greek, becometh hereby like a candle set upon a candlestick, which giveth light to all that are in the house, or like a proclamation sounded forth in the market-place, which most men presently take knowledge of; and therefore that language was fittest to contain the Scriptures, both for the first preachers of the Gospel to appeal unto for witness, and for the learners also of those times to make search and trial by.

So much for your statement that I don't provide proof. Do YOU know more about the AV than those who MADE it? Yeah, right...

 

[Johnthebaptist]

What do you see as the remedy for this situation?

logos

One thing that has brought this condition about I believe is preaching and teaching an easy believism salvation. Salvation is of the Lord, He must convict and draw a person. We have a lot of people that have come down the aisle shaken the preachers hand and been dump in the baptistry and placed on the Church roll without ever having been born again.

Secondly, We live in a different world today which has a different system of values and morality. The value system of the world has infiltrated the Church today. The Church has become so much like the world. You have many professing Christians men and women living together out of wedlock.

Thirdly, much preaching today is geared not to offend anybody. Most preaching deals with meeting needs. You don't hear much preaching on the sinfulness of man and the reality of Hell. You do not hear much doctrinal preaching today. Many Christians beliefs are effected by the culture in which we live, which may are may not be in harmony with Scripture.

Fourthly, Liberal theology being taught in our seminaries and colleges had produced many preachers that do not believe in th inerrancy of Scriptures, who light peddle sin. This has effected the spiritual climate in many churches today and demoninations.

Fifthly, Christians do not look at the Bible as inerrant and authoritative for doctrine and Christian living. They do not yeild to the authority of Scripture. They take the Word of God lightly. Family is more important than God.

The answer is to get back to the Bible as the authoritative inerrant Word of God, (Not the KJV) WE need preachers to preach the whole councill of God unapologetically, Jesus saves, Hell is hot and heaven sweet. We need revivial I don't mean three night meetings. We need a spiritual awakening as in the 1700s during the Great Awakening. Christians need to repent of sin and turn to the Lord. We need to get back to the holiness of God. It is God's will that we be holy. Most Christians are sold under sin. Sin is their master. They are indifferent to God because of personal sin in their lives and rebellion. We are so influence by the world today. Ther is little or no commitment among professing Christians.


2Ch 7:14 if my people, who are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

God Bless
John

 

[42ndgen]

Hi Peter:

You misquoted me when you stated this:

42ndgen thinks that if the originals did not exist,that then there is no chance of a reliable KJV.

No I said if there is no reliable original language transcripts than there can be no reliable KJV translation.

What you want is infallibility for the KJV when it is translated from in your opinion falliable unreliable original texts in Greek and Hebrew. That is impossible. That would be like trying to live an uncompromised life while all the time compromising at every step.

 

[logos_x]

logos

One thing that has brought this condition about I believe is preaching and teaching an easy believism salvation. Salvation is of the Lord, He must convict and draw a person. We have a lot of people that have come down the aisle shaken the preachers hand and been dump in the baptistry and placed on the Church roll without ever having been born again.

I would say it's just the opposite.
We have poffered off a fear based salvation. We have taught that Jesus is the only way to escape an eternal burning hellfire.
Any coward would desire to escape that, and come forward for "salvation". He or she might not know the first thing about what it really means to be saved.

Secondly, We live in a different world today which has a different system of values and morality. The value system of the world has infiltrated the Church today. The Church has become so much like the world. You have many professing Christians men and women living together out of wedlock.

I don't think it's as bad now as when christianity began.
The Corinthians were pagans, and sex was part of their worship. When they became christians, some had to be taught that it wasn't right to go to the temple and participate in that.
If you want to claim that there was a 'higher moral ground" in times past..then you have to explain why it was abandoned.
I think you'll find that there were many moral failings in the past. Today, though, they don't hide it as well.

Thirdly, much preaching today is geared not to offend anybody. Most preaching deals with meeting needs. You don't hear much preaching on the sinfulness of man and the reality of Hell. You do not hear much doctrinal preaching today. Many Christians beliefs are effected by the culture in which we live, which may are may not be in harmony with Scripture.

I've heard plenty of preaching on the sinfulness of man and the pagan belief in eternal torment. A lot of "doctrinal" preaching. It doesn't work...mostly because it is a misrepresentation of Christ's absolute victory.
Jesus has the keys for departed souls (hades) and death, and all power is given to Him in Heaven and Earth. That is the gospel that must be preached.

Fourthly, Liberal theology being taught in our seminaries and colleges had produced many preachers that do not believe in th inerrancy of Scriptures, who light peddle sin. This has effected the spiritual climate in many churches today and demoninations.

More like light peddling Christ's victory over sin.

Fifthly, Christians do not look at the Bible as inerrant and authoritative for doctrine and Christian living. They do not yeild to the authority of Scripture. They take the Word of God lightly. Family is more important than God.

:think: Wonder why that is...

The answer is to get back to the Bible as the authoritative inerrant Word of God, (Not the KJV) WE need preachers to preach the whole councill of God unapologetically, Jesus saves, Hell is hot and heaven sweet. We need revivial I don't mean three night meetings. We need a spiritual awakening as in the 1700s during the Great Awakening. Christians need to repent of sin and turn to the Lord. We need to get back to the holiness of God. It is God's will that we be holy. Most Christians are sold under sin. Sin is their master. They are indifferent to God because of personal sin in their lives and rebellion. We are so influence by the world today. Ther is little or no commitment among professing Christians.

Paul taught all the counsel of God:

Act 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.

The only time he said anything about hell, it was to describe it's utter defeat and destruction. In fact, the word "hell" isn't even used by Paul at all!

Further..self effort and "commitment" don't liberate one from sin.
People need to learn what Grace really is.

2Ch 7:14 if my people, who are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

God Bless
John

Amen!

 

[logos_x]

It is a form of idolatry.
Bibliolatry --- Bible worship
I will not compromise with you on this.

I do commend you for taking a stand,and not compromizing.We can only go by the light that we have,or can possibly believe.I have no beef with you on that account at all.
May God richly bless your work for the Lord in all things.

It may be,however that you have missunderstood me,in reguards to the 1611 AV.
This is not idolatry at all.In fact,those that would use more than one version,are the real ones that are into idlolatry.Idolatry is nothing more than a false god.
With one version,Guess what?God and his word is the final authority.But here is the key,and we learn of it right in the garden of Eden.Yea,Hath God said?
Now learn this,whenever there are conflicting authorities,as there was in the garden with the serpent challenging God's words,WE BECOME THE ARBITER.Why?Because now we are CHOOSING which authority to follow.And so,mankind usurps the authority of God.Who'd a thunk it?
Follow the yellow brick road,as it were.She went of to see the wizard,we to God Almighty.
When there is a fork in the road that also APPEARS yellow at first glance,many get sucked in,because they did not listen and obey.Otherwise confusion is the order of the day.We all know that God is not the author of confusion.Ever since the new versions came upon the scene,that has been the norm here,in the church.Cofusion,and every evil work.
Satan is alive and well in the confusion business.We are to speak the same things,says God's words.Why?So that there is no divisions among you.
Modern Bible studies are now just pumping out confusion,because every person has a private take on a certain verse,mostly because of the version he or she follows.They all become as gods.This is because they are being the arbiter and deciding for themselves just which rendering is good,and which rendering is evil.

So,insead of having the word of God correcting us,we correct the word of God,showing no fear of God and his words.Shame.We need to instantly repent of that.
We desparately need the correction and judgement of God and his words in this day and age.
Different versions becomes a Bible Babel,dividing the Church.Satan would like to be like the most high.
According to the Bible,divisions are caused by heresies.1Cor 11:18,19.Plus it reveals just who is the approved.
Satan has not changed his tactic under the guise of the TREE OF KNOWLEDGE.
This is where many good godly men have been duped.
This tree of knowledge is nothing more than bait,good,pleasent,& to be desired to make one wise.Don't forget,that the initial temptation is never to to be bad.But that is the outcome.The temptation is always to usurp the authority of God Almighty.
Today,it is occuring in the churches under the form of subtly dismanteling the authority of the words of God,and redirects it over to the words of men.Man-made sources.
The Greek lexICON is the ICON of choice today,to make one wise,and to change God's authoritative voice.
We are just like the Laodicean Church,Luke Warm,Can't hear God's voice.Now the LORD is outside the church doors knocking to come in.

We are to go outside the camp,bearing his reproach.But that hurts.No person likes ridicule,now,do they?
Jesus said ;The words that I speak unto you,they are spirit.With lots of the words of God gone out of the new versions,the flesh takes over.All we are left with is ,a form of Godliness,without the power thereof.
There are four ways the Devil keeps us from the words of God and steals them.

1]Persecution and burnings,such as Diocletian till 1400's.
2]new Perversions,that rip out some 64,000 words of the prescious word of God.
3]Correcting the Bible in the pulpit by saying "A better reading would be"...the Bible is misleading here...the Greek says...
4]The fourth way that the Devil steals the words of God from out hearts is by making it it hard to read and memorize and study each day in our daily devotions.He likes to occupy our time with things.

And I rest my case.

 

[logos_x]

Is the K.J.V. an accurate record of the writings of the inspired authors?

1. Many words that were in common usage during the writing of the K.J.V. have since changed meaning. This is not the error of the King James scholars but proves to be erroneous today and thus these words are not a true reflection of the inspired writers' words into today's English. These words cannot be used today as scripture to study about God.

Let us observe a few of these three hundred outdated words. For the Greek word immediately, the K.J.V. uses the words immediately, straightway, by and by, Presently and anon. The last three can be most misleading as this example of "by and by" reveals.

Luke 21:9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified; for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by. This should read, ".......but the end is not immediately."

Consider a few other outdated King James words as demand that should be asked, the word let for hinder, communicate for share, prevent for precede, and conversation for conduct.

2. The language of the K.J.V. consisted of beautiful and easy flowing words and was written expressively in that style but at the expense of accuracy. Rather than bringing down a word from the ancient manuscripts consistently as would be accurate, the King James scholars abandoned the inspired writers intention of repeating a word that would serve to impress the reader and instead (because of their love for variation) used a variety of English words for one and the same word from the ancient manuscripts.

Along this line of thought, let us note what the King James scholars wrote about themselves in their Preface to the K.J.V.

"Another thing we think good to admonish thee of, gentle reader, that we have not tied ourselves to an uniformity of phrasing, or to an identity of words - - - For is the kingdom of God become words or syllables? Why should we be in bondage to them, if we may be free? use one precisely, when we may use another no less fit as commodiously?"

Here is an example of this error (for achieving variation) in using three different words (underlined) which are one and the same Greek word in the ancient manuscripts.

Romans 5:2 - we stand and rejoice in hope
Romans 5:3 - we glory in tribulation
Romans 5:11 - we also joy in God

3. There are added passages found in the K.J.V. that were not written by the inspired writers. Here is one example of many. All underlined words are erroneous additions and not scripture.

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth the spirit and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one" (I JOHN 5:7,8).

Two editions of the New Testament by the Dutch humanist Desiderius Erasmus appeared without the spurious words. He was greatly assailed by people who insisted that the additional words would be a valuable proof for their favorite doctrine of the trinity. Erasmus replied that if any Greek manuscript could be shown him that contained these added words, he would include them in his next addition. One such Greek manuscript was found but was only some twenty years old and was a copy from the inferior Latin manuscripts. True to his word, Erasmus inserted the erroneous words in his third edition of 1522. Since his time one other Greek manuscript has been found with the added words but it is a late copy of the sixteenth century. Only two late century copies with the added words compared to the several thousand Greek manuscripts without the added words is overwhelming evidence against their authenticity.

The earliest complete Bible of note was that written by John Wycliffe 1380 and his inclusion of the added verses were of little weight since he translated directly from the revised Latin Vulgate. Tyndale used the 1522 edition of Erasmus in his translation and from these two sources, these non scriptural words found their way into the K.J.V.

4. The forty seven Revisors were restricted in their duties on the new Bible by fifteen rules as dictated by King James. Here is one of these rules for our examination.

Rule 3. The old ecclesiastical words to be kept, --- King James needed this rule to make his new Bible appear familiar to his subjects who were accustomed to the earlier English Bibles and also to further some of his cherished doctrines and those of the established English Church. It was also directed against the trend of the Puritans who wanted to abolish terms taken from Catholic ritual.

Consider this example of Rule 3

The Greek word ANGELOS should be correctly translated messengers. The K.J.V. brings down two words, angel and messenger for this one Greek word ANGELOS. Had the K.J.V. used the correct translation instead of the ecclesiastical word angel, many scriptures would have become more defined and clear.

If the King James revisors had been consistent in bringing down their word angel for every Greek word ANGELOS, then Mark 1:4 would be calling John the Baptist an angel (also Luke 7:27), and in Luke 7:24 the two disciples of John the Baptist would be the angels of John the Baptist.

Note the salutation to the angels of the seven churches --- in Asia as recorded in the K.J.V. in Revelation chapters 1, 2 and 3. The word angel conveys the idea that these are heavenly overshadowing beings when in fact they refer to earthly messengers (the message givers) or the pastors of these seven churches.

5. A study of the scholars of the K.J.V. produces several interesting facts worthy of our attention.

a. For the most part, the scholars were clergymen and most of these from the English Church. Although most of the scholars were skilled in the Greek or Hebrew languages, yet the wording of the K.J.V. was slanted toward the English Church.

Dr. Robert Gell, the author, was also the chaplain to the renown Archbishop Abbot (one of the scholars of the New Testament of the K.J.V.) wrote concerning the K.J.V. and its scholars. He remarked that some of the translators complained that they could not follow their own judgment in the matter, but were restrained by reason of state.

b. Several of the scholars of the K.J.V. were selected because of patronage rather than their being a linguist of the Hebrew and Greek. One example of this was John Overall Bishop of Norwich, who was a brilliant Latinist but not an authority in the Biblical languages. Another example was Richard Thomson, a man of only moderate skill in Hebrew and a notorious drunkard but a friend of one of the revisors, L. Andrews.

6. The exclusion of some of the greatest minds of that day casts a definite reflection on the selection of scholars for the writing of the K.J.V. Had they contributed, their talents would have greatly enhanced the new Bible. Let us note one of these exclusions.

Hugh Broughton was not only the most intellectual scholar of the Hebrew language and customs, but also a foremost authority in Rabbinical writings. His skill in the Greek was described as rare by a contemporary scholar. After studying a copy of the new K.J.V. he remarked, "The late bible --- was sent to me to censure: which bred in me a sadness that will grieve me while I breathe, it is so ill done. Tell His Majesty that I had rather be rent in pieces with wild horses than any such translation by my consent should be urged upon poor churches --- The new edition crosseth me. I require it to be burnt."

7. The Apocryphal books or those books not considered to be divinely inspired by God were included in the K.J.V. of 1611. Article VI of the Church of England in 1562 authorized the reading of these books for the populace.
The scholars for the work on the K.J.V. were divided into six companies, the fourth company consisted of seven scholars whose duty was the revising of the Apocryphal books. Shortly after the publication of the K.J.V. Archbishop Abbot forbade the issue of the K.J.V. without the Apocrypha on pain of one years imprisonment.

 

[42ndgen]

Hi Logos:

1. Many words that were in common usage during the writing of the K.J.V. have since changed meaning. This is not the error of the King James scholars but proves to be erroneous today and thus these words are not a true reflection of the inspired writers' words into today's English. These words cannot be used today as scripture to study about God.

Let us observe a few of these three hundred outdated words. For the Greek word immediately, the K.J.V. uses the words immediately, straightway, by and by, Presently and anon. The last three can be most misleading as this example of "by and by" reveals.

Luke 21:9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified; for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by. This should read, ".......but the end is not immediately."

Consider a few other outdated King James words as demand that should be asked, the word let for hinder, communicate for share, prevent for precede, and conversation for conduct.

I am familiar with these different words and how they were used in the past and How they have come in some instances to mean exactly the opposite of what they did.:up :thumb

For example the word let used to mean Hinder like you said but now it means the exact opposite 'to permit, to allow' .

Good post but it won't be believed by those who are KJV only supporters. They are too busy defending a version, to come to Jesus.
Joh 5:39-40 You Search the scriptures KJV only; for in them they think they have eternal life: and they, the KJV Only scriptures, are they which testify of me. (40) And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.


Grace and peace Patrick

 

[robycop3]

I am familiar with these different words and how they were used in the past and How they have come in some instances to mean exactly the opposite of what they did.:up :thumb

For example the word let used to mean Hinder like you said but now it means the exact opposite 'to permit, to allow' .

Good post but it won't be believed by those who are KJV only supporters. They are too busy defending a version, to come to Jesus.
Joh 5:39-40 You Search the scriptures KJV only; for in them they think they have eternal life: and they, the KJV Only scriptures, are they which testify of me. (40) And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Patrick, I must disagree with you in part, as my almost-25-year experiences with KJVOs shows me that most of them ARE saved; most are well-meaning Christians who have been deceived by the devil. While KJVO is utterly incorrect, it is NOT in itself a sin unless/until it degenerates into Versionolatry.

We must remember that the devil doesn't have anything else to do but to try to deceive us all, 24/7, and that he is immensely more powerful than the whole universe, EXCEPT FOR GOD. Now, while he cannot take our salvation, he CAN deceive us into practices and doctrines which can effectively limit our witnessing to the lost, and KJVO is one such deception. When a new Christian whose faith came from the word of God as found in the NIV, for example, is exposed to some of the KJVO propaganda, he
/she may lose faith in the accuracy of the Bible.

Now, while some KJVOs may heap aspersions upon our faith because we don't submit to their fairy tale, we need not stoop to their level by doing likewise. Instead, why don't we concentrate upon continuing to prove them wrong, and let their faith or lack thereof speak for itself?

 

[robycop3]

The KJVO simply cannot get it right!

The KJVO simply cannot get it right!

Peter A VI do commend you for taking a stand,and not compromizing.We can only go by the light that we have,or can possibly believe.I have no beef with you on that account at all.
May God richly bless your work for the Lord in all things.

I don't compromise with any false doctrines, either...and that includes the KJVO myth. It's false, has been PROVEN false, and, GOD WILLING, I will speak out against it wherever/whenever I come across it.

It may be,however that you have missunderstood me,in reguards to the 1611 AV.
This is not idolatry at all.In fact,those that would use more than one version,are the real ones that are into idlolatry.Idolatry is nothing more than a false god.

Totally wrong. WHERE DOES GOD SAY TO USE ONLY THE KJV??? The KJVOs are taking matters into their own hands, proclaiming that anyone who has views different from their own is in error. WHERE IS THEIR SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT?


With one version,Guess what?God and his word is the final authority.But here is the key,and we learn of it right in the garden of Eden.Yea,Hath God said?

Yea, hath God said, "Thou shalt read and use only the KJV"? Scripture, please.


Now learn this,whenever there are conflicting authorities,as there was in the garden with the serpent challenging God's words,WE BECOME THE ARBITER.Why?Because now we are CHOOSING which authority to follow.And so,mankind usurps the authority of God.


And that's EXACTLY what the KJVOs do. They have arbitrarily chosen one English version of God's words and have just-as-arbitrarily proclaimed it as the ONLY "official" English version of God's word...without one scintilla of support form that very version they've exalted! How more hypocritical could they be by accusing US, who do not subscribe to such a man-made false buncha hooey, as picking-n-choosing what we believe is God's word? THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THE KJVOs HAVE DONE! They operate according to a man-made false doctrine about God's word instead of from that word itself.


Who'd a thunk it?

A SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST OFFICIAL, and several dishonest authors who followed, armed with today's mass media.


Follow the yellow brick road,as it were.She went of to see the wizard,we to God Almighty.
When there is a fork in the road that also APPEARS yellow at first glance,many get sucked in,because they did not listen and obey.Otherwise confusion is the order of the day.We all know that God is not the author of confusion.Ever since the new versions came upon the scene,that has been the norm here,in the church.Cofusion,and every evil work.
Satan is alive and well in the confusion business.We are to speak the same things,says God's words.Why?So that there is no divisions among you.

More hypocrisy. What to you KJVOs do? You follow a man-made doctrine, not found in ANY valid Bible. And, to make it worse, you are NOT the penultimate author of this hypocrisy. (The ULTIMATE author is Satan.)

I'm not gonna comment on the rest of the garbage you posted. Why?

I was checking through my bookshelf because your above bunk looked quite familiar, and then I saw your next post:

"This last post was gleaned from Riplinger's Which Bible is God's Word?"

With that post, your credibility just went south.

RIPLINGER IS A CHARLATAN! Her books are full of misinformation, misquotes, and just plain LIES! Even most KJVOs avoid her junk like a dose of plague. Some of the most scathing and truthful denunciations of her work have been made by other KJVOs, and here's a link to an example:

http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/newage.htm

http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/riplinger3.htm

Many others before me have denounced and proven GAR's stuff wrong, and I see no need to beat a dead horse. But you might learn something if you take any of her books & search out the veracity of her assertions one-by-one. I assure you I've done JUST THAT! But since you're not likely to believe me, I suggest you forget what I've said about her stuff & do your own unbiased, thorough research...THEN come back & support her junk...IF YOU DARE.

Both you and Riplinger follow the old Wilkinson/Ray/Fuller KJVO "party line" of misinformation and dishonesty, but Riplinger has taken it to a new level of those things with her additions to the original trash. If SHE is your source for being taken in by the KJVO myth, I suggest you PRAY FERVENTLY and check out the veracity of her assertions for yourself. And if you wanna have any credibility, even among the mainstream KJVO crowd, I suggest you neither quote nor mention her in favorable terms again.

 

[robycop3]

Peter A V:He also falsely defends the LXX[72]But he USES the KJV tranlation,but claims that the KJV to be false time and again,but gives NO PROOF.

That's an outright LIE. I have supplied the proof that EASTER in Acts 12:4 is wrong. And the misstarement in Acts 5:3, "slew and hanged", requires no elaboration.


You have no originals,so there is reason to doubt.

And YOU do?

Besides Easter is right in this spot.one has just misunderstood the answer.

No, it is NOT right in this one spot; it's simply WRONG. Why? Because it's well-established that Luke wrote Acts between 59 AD and 62 AD Proof for that? It was in 59 that Claudius Caesar(Nero) became anti-Christian, and, while Acts ends with Paul in Rome awaiteng his audience with Caesar, Nero ordered his release in the summer of 62, as the matter was too trivial for his time.(Not to be confused with the Claudius Caesar, Nero's uncle, whom he succeeded as Caesar)

It is just as well-established that no one observed Resurrection Day until about 155 AD. And RD was NOT called Easter anywhere on earth until the late 300s AD. You may check out the above facts from any reputable encyclopedia.

Thus, it was impossible for Luke to have written about Easter because IT DIDN'T THEN EXIST! Whern Luke wrote, the Greek word 'pascha', which he wrote, meant PASSOVER ONLY. It is thus translated in the KJV wherever else it appears in the Greek, and was thus translated in the Geneva Bible, the immediate predecessor of the AV 1611.

Anti-KJVOism FACT vs KJVO GUESSWORK & FAIRY TALES

 

[Johnthebaptist]

logos-x

I would say it's just the opposite.
We have poffered off a fear based salvation. We have taught that Jesus is the only way to escape an eternal burning hellfire.
Any coward would desire to escape that, and come forward for "salvation". He or she might not know the first thing about what it really means to be saved.

You need to listen to some of Jesus preaching.

Mat 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye shut the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye enter not in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering in to enter.
Mat 23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, even while for a pretence ye make long prayers: therefore ye shall receive greater condemnation.
Mat 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he is become so, ye make him twofold more a son of hell than yourselves.
Mat 23:16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, that say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor.
Mat 23:17 Ye fools and blind: for which is greater, the gold, or the temple that hath sanctified the gold?
Mat 23:18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gift that is upon it, he is a debtor.
Mat 23:19 Ye blind: for which is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?
Mat 23:20 He therefore that sweareth by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.
Mat 23:21 And he that sweareth by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.
Mat 23:22 And he that sweareth by the heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.
Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye tithe mint and anise and cummin, and have left undone the weightier matters of the law, justice, and mercy, and faith: but these ye ought to have done, and not to have left the other undone.
Mat 23:24 Ye blind guides, that strain out the gnat, and swallow the camel!
Mat 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye cleanse the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full from extortion and excess.
Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first the inside of the cup and of the platter, that the outside thereof may become clean also.
Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which outwardly appear beautiful, but inwardly are full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Mat 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but inwardly ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
Mat 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and garnish the tombs of the righteous,
Mat 23:30 and say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we should not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
Mat 23:31 Wherefore ye witness to yourselves, that ye are sons of them that slew the prophets.
Mat 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye offspring of vipers, how shall ye escape the judgment of hell?

Well According to you, you would say Jesus was wrong also. Evidently you do not believe all of the Bible is the Word of God. Your type of thinking is what is wrong with the sprituality in churches today. The idea we are never to be negative, well Jesus was!

I don't think it's as bad now as when christianity began.
The Corinthians were pagans, and sex was part of their worship. When they became christians, some had to be taught that it wasn't right to go to the temple and participate in that.
If you want to claim that there was a 'higher moral ground" in times past..then you have to explain why it was abandoned.

I think you'll find that there were many moral failings in the past. Today, though, they don't hide it as well.

I was not referring to the Corinthian culture but to the American culture and the church in America.

I've heard plenty of preaching on the sinfulness of man and the pagan belief in eternal torment. A lot of "doctrinal" preaching. It doesn't work...mostly because it is a misrepresentation of Christ's absolute victory.
Jesus has the keys for departed souls (hades) and death, and all power is given to Him in Heaven and Earth. That is the gospel that must be preached.

Well, I do not know what kind of doctrine you are refering to, but I am referring to Bible doctrine, which is Bible truth. Which clearly teaches our victory in Jesus.

More like light peddling Christ's victory over sin.

Yes liberal theology denies the substitionary atonement of Christ, and liberal theology light peddles sin. It sounds like you do not like to here preach that deal with the sinfulness of man or that certain things are sin. This is like our culture today.

God Bless
John

 

[robycop3]

Practice what you preach!

Practice what you preach!

Scholarship onlyism,Scholarship onlyism,Man's widom is foolishness. :banana:

Then why in thunder are you hawking a man-made false doctrine?

 

[robycop3]

False Monickers

False Monickers

Without singling out Peter AV or AV Bunyan, I have noticed on many boards many people who have "AV" or "1611" in their screen names, but yet, when quoting Scripture, they quote from later editions of the KJV rather from the AV 1611. The KJVOs claim they're one and the same, but a simple reading of the first 5 verses of Genesis 1 from the AV and a current KJV edition proves that assertion WRONG.

But, such assertions are a part of the overall KJVO myth, a set of false doctrines founded by a cult member and promoted by two dishonest authors.

 

[logos_x]

logos-x

I would say it's just the opposite.
We have poffered off a fear based salvation. We have taught that Jesus is the only way to escape an eternal burning hellfire.
Any coward would desire to escape that, and come forward for "salvation". He or she might not know the first thing about what it really means to be saved.

You need to listen to some of Jesus preaching.

Mat 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye shut the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye enter not in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering in to enter.
Mat 23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, even while for a pretence ye make long prayers: therefore ye shall receive greater condemnation.
Mat 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he is become so, ye make him twofold more a son of hell than yourselves.
Mat 23:16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, that say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor.
Mat 23:17 Ye fools and blind: for which is greater, the gold, or the temple that hath sanctified the gold?
Mat 23:18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gift that is upon it, he is a debtor.
Mat 23:19 Ye blind: for which is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?
Mat 23:20 He therefore that sweareth by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.
Mat 23:21 And he that sweareth by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.
Mat 23:22 And he that sweareth by the heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.
Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye tithe mint and anise and cummin, and have left undone the weightier matters of the law, justice, and mercy, and faith: but these ye ought to have done, and not to have left the other undone.
Mat 23:24 Ye blind guides, that strain out the gnat, and swallow the camel!
Mat 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye cleanse the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full from extortion and excess.
Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first the inside of the cup and of the platter, that the outside thereof may become clean also.
Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which outwardly appear beautiful, but inwardly are full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Mat 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but inwardly ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
Mat 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and garnish the tombs of the righteous,
Mat 23:30 and say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we should not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
Mat 23:31 Wherefore ye witness to yourselves, that ye are sons of them that slew the prophets.
Mat 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye offspring of vipers, how shall ye escape the judgment of hell?

Well According to you, you would say Jesus was wrong also. Evidently you do not believe all of the Bible is the Word of God. Your type of thinking is what is wrong with the sprituality in churches today. The idea we are never to be negative, well Jesus was!

That is not waht I said. I said:
I would say it's just the opposite.
We have poffered off a fear based salvation. We have taught that Jesus is the only way to escape an eternal burning hellfire.
Any coward would desire to escape that, and come forward for "salvation". He or she might not know the first thing about what it really means to be saved.

The passage you quoted from the Bible was spoken to the Pharisees. They believed in Hell
Notice Jesus did NOT say Hell is eternal..in fact, He didn't define it at all.

I was not referring to the Corinthian culture but to the American culture and the church in America.

Ok. So you think America was more moral in times past?
I think it was more dishonest.

Well, I do not know what kind of doctrine you are refering to, but I am referring to Bible doctrine, which is Bible truth. Which clearly teaches our victory in Jesus.

Me too

More like light peddling Christ's victory over sin.

Yes liberal theology denies the substitionary atonement of Christ, and liberal theology light peddles sin. It sounds like you do not like to here preach that deal with the sinfulness of man or that certain things are sin. This is like our culture today.

God Bless
John

How the hell did you get that tripe from what I said here.
My arguement in this post is agaist the pagan doctrine of eternal torment.
Sin is the problem. Eternal torment denies Christ's victory over sin more than any other false doctrine.

Any god who will permit sin such as cursing, blasphemy, and bitterness to endure eternally would be soft on sin. For only such a compromising deity would invent an endless hell of ceaseless cursing and blasphemy to co-exist with his holy nature forever.

 

[42ndgen]

Hi robycop3:

You have stated this in response to my post:

Patrick, I must disagree with you in part, as my almost-25-year experiences with KJVOs shows me that most of them ARE saved; most are well-meaning Christians who have been deceived by the devil. While KJVO is utterly incorrect, it is NOT in itself a sin unless/until it degenerates into Versionolatry.

We must remember that the devil doesn't have anything else to do but to try to deceive us all, 24/7, and that he is immensely more powerful than the whole universe, EXCEPT FOR GOD. Now, while he cannot take our salvation, he CAN deceive us into practices and doctrines which can effectively limit our witnessing to the lost, and KJVO is one such deception. When a new Christian whose faith came from the word of God as found in the NIV, for example, is exposed to some of the KJVO propaganda, he
/she may lose faith in the accuracy of the Bible.

Now, while some KJVOs may heap aspersions upon our faith because we don't submit to their fairy tale, we need not stoop to their level by doing likewise. Instead, why don't we concentrate upon continuing to prove them wrong, and let their faith or lack thereof speak for itself?

Did I say that they are not saved?
No sir I did not they obviously are those that consider themselves saved. I agree there are many men that are saved who believe this. But they are refusing to come into a deeper relationship with the Lord in this area when they insist that the KJV is the only inerrent bible in existance. They like the Israelites have decided to camp around a truth and have decided to stay there, but the trumpet has sounded the Glory has departed and they are still in the wilderness camped around a truth they consider sacred, but now without the Lord's glory or protection. Just like the Israelites who refused to move with the Glory did, were without the glory of the Lord and without protection in the wilderness. All they need to do is pack up there tents and seek the Lord.

Grace and Peace Patrick