Just accept the Biblical fact that God is one

[Elia]

Amen God is one....He is Father, Son and Holy Ghost

Bs"d

I know counting to three is a very big challenge for Christians, but I'll try to explain this to you:

A "Father", "son", and a "holy ghost", that is THREE, because 1 + 1 + 1 = 3, and not 1.

And God is not three, but ONE:

שמע ישראל י-ה-ו-ה אלהנו י-ה-ו-ה אחד

Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE.​

And you shall love Y-H-W-H your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.
And these words which I command you this day shall be upon your heart;
and you shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise.
And you shall bind them as a sign upon your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.
And you shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.
Deut 6:4-9

The Jews until this day fulfill this commandment. Every morning they put upon their arm and upon their forehead their phylacteries, (prayer belts) that consist of black straps with black leather cubes, that contain parchment upon which is written this Biblical text that says that God is one. Upon the doorposts of the houses of the religious Jews there are small boxes or containers that also contain parchment upon which is written that God is one. During the morning and evening prayers the above text is recited which says that God is one.

 

[Elia]

ELIA,


Polytheism does NOT Make you an idol worshiper if you Believe John 1:1

It is all according to your Belief.

Bs"d

It is not about "believe", it is about what God says in the Torah.

The Torah is given in a revelation of God, not to one man, but to a nation of millions op people.

In the Torah God says: “You were shown these things so that you might know that Y-H-W-H is God; besides him there is no other.”
Deuteronomy 4:35

“Acknowledge and take to heart this day that Y-H-W-H is God in heaven above and on the earth below. There is no other.”
Deuteronomy 4:39

So that is not a believe, that's a fact.

And then it is not possible for one man to come and claim that suddenly there is more than one God.

There is only one God who is one, and that is Y-H-W-H, and besides Him there is no God.

When anybody believes in more than one God, then he is polytheist, and an idol worshipper.

"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H.”
Joshua 24:14-15

 

[keypurr]

Bs"d

I know counting to three is a very big challenge for Christians, but I'll try to explain this to you:

A "Father", "son", and a "holy ghost", that is THREE, because 1 + 1 + 1 = 3, and not 1.

And God is not three, but ONE:

שמע ישראל י-ה-ו-ה אלהנו י-ה-ו-ה אחד

Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE.​

And you shall love Y-H-W-H your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.
And these words which I command you this day shall be upon your heart;
and you shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise.
And you shall bind them as a sign upon your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.
And you shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.
Deut 6:4-9

The Jews until this day fulfill this commandment. Every morning they put upon their arm and upon their forehead their phylacteries, (prayer belts) that consist of black straps with black leather cubes, that contain parchment upon which is written this Biblical text that says that God is one. Upon the doorposts of the houses of the religious Jews there are small boxes or containers that also contain parchment upon which is written that God is one. During the morning and evening prayers the above text is recited which says that God is one.

They will not listen friend, as you won"t either.

ARAMAIC ENGLISH NEW TESTAMENT

YOCHANAN (JOHN)
Chapter 1
1. In the beginning was the Miltha. And that Miltha was with Elohim. And Elohim was that Miltha.
2. This was with Elohim in the beginning.
3. Everything existed through his hands……….

Miltha refers to the “Manifestation” of the Ruach haKodesh within Mashiyach. The physical body of Mashiyach is not the Word of YHWH, but his words and actions demonstrate the Will and Word of YHWH, which upholds observance of Torah.

ARAMAIC ENGLISH NEW TESTAMENT

YOCHANAN (JOHN)
Chapter 1
1. In the beginning was the Miltha. And that Miltha was with Elohim. And Elohim was that Miltha.
2. This was with Elohim in the beginning.
3. Everything existed through his hands……….

Miltha refers to the “Manifestation” of the Ruach haKodesh within Mashiyach. The physical body of Mashiyach is not the Word of YHWH, but his words and actions demonstrate the Will and Word of YHWH, which upholds observance of Torah.

Miltha is the spiritual son of Elohim (God).
Mashiyach refers to Messiah Y’shua (Jesus Christ)
YHWH is the name of the most high God.
Ruach haKodesh is the Holy Spirit.
Elohim is God or a god, it can refer to more than the creator.

-------------------------------------------
YHWH is the ONLY true GOD and he sent his son to show us the light of his Father.

 

[Elia]

They will not listen friend, as you won"t either.

Bs"d

Why keep on believing in a false prophet who didn't fulfil the messianic prophecies?


"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H.”
Joshua 24:14-15

 

[Totton Linnet]

Bs"d

I know counting to three is a very big challenge for Christians, but I'll try to explain this to you:

A "Father", "son", and a "holy ghost", that is THREE, because 1 + 1 + 1 = 3, and not 1.

And God is not three, but ONE:

שמע ישראל י-ה-ו-ה אלהנו י-ה-ו-ה אחד

Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE.​

And you shall love Y-H-W-H your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.
And these words which I command you this day shall be upon your heart;
and you shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise.
And you shall bind them as a sign upon your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.
And you shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.
Deut 6:4-9

The Jews until this day fulfill this commandment. Every morning they put upon their arm and upon their forehead their phylacteries, (prayer belts) that consist of black straps with black leather cubes, that contain parchment upon which is written this Biblical text that says that God is one. Upon the doorposts of the houses of the religious Jews there are small boxes or containers that also contain parchment upon which is written that God is one. During the morning and evening prayers the above text is recited which says that God is one.

1+1+1 = 3 only in the natural world

 

[Ben Masada]

Bs"d

Nobody is released from the law. Gods law stands forever. That is what God said:

And Jesus confirmed it in Mat. 5:17-19.

“So you shall observe the Feast of Unleavened Bread, for on this same day I will have brought your armies out of the land of Egypt. Therefore you shall observe this day throughout your generations as an everlasting ordinance."Ex 12:17.

That's for us only as part of the commandments "in memory to." I mean, it does not carry the wight of the Decalogue.

"In the tabernacle of meeting, outside the veil which is before the Testimony, Aaron and his sons shall tend it from evening until morning before the Lord. It shall be a statute forever to their generations on behalf of the children of Israel."Ex 27:21]

For the Jews only as a ritual commandment. No severity dwells in it.

"This shall be a perpetual statute throughout your generations in all your dwellings: you shall eat neither fat nor blood.’”Leviticus 3:17

The same as above.

"You shall eat neither bread nor parched grain nor fresh grain until the same day that you have brought an offering to your God; it shall be a statute forever throughout your generations in all your dwellings."Leviticus 23:14

Well, I agree as long as we are aware of that's for the Jews only.

“‘Now if you as a community unintentionally fail to keep any of these commands the Lord gave Moses— 23 any of the Lord’s commands to you through him, from the day the Lord gave them and continuing through the generations to come" Numbers 15:23

The same as above; national commandments.

There is much, much more like this, saying the law stands forever, for all generations.

I know and I agree with every thing you say.

There is no such a thing as: "The messiah will come and abolish the law". It just doesn't exist.

That would be the same as to say that Israel abolished its own laws.

And, of course, JC himself also said the exact opposite of what the Christians say:

I do understand what you mean. The reason is that Christians speak according to the gospel of Paul and Jesus according to his own gospel aka Judaism.

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven." Matt

You mean Matthew 5:17-19. As the NT is concerned, this text is my favorite.

So also JC agrees: The law stands forever.

And so do I.

It is only Paul who comes up with the idea that the law is abolished, but who is Paul that he thinks he can abolish the law?

An outlaw. BTW, there are three positions as the Law is concerned: 1. the One above the Law which is HaShem; 2. Those under the Law aka the Law abiding citizens and; 3. The outlaws aka those whom Paul has released from the Law. (Rom. 7:6)

"For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of Y-H-W-H our God for ever and ever.". Micah 4:5.

Baruch HaShem!

 

[Ben Masada]

1 - Your claim about what Jesus meant about his identity is NOT the way YOUR Jewish religious experts understood Jesus when he spoke directly to them. You may barf out a lot of revisionism and cherry picking on TOL but in this instance you are stretching credulity.

2 - To see a Creator Son is to see the Father invested in his divine Son.

For the most part the Jews of evolved Judaism eliminated earlier plural deity concepts. Your ongoing war against Jesus on this site leaves you too blind to comprehend the truth revealed in the life of Jesus.

1 - Quote to me a Jewish religious expert who thinks differently from my thoughts about Jesus and I'll show you that even a regular Jew he is not.

2 - With this statement of yours, you are simply implying that Yahweh was of the likes of Zeus and that Jesus was a demigod which is the son of a god with an earthly woman. (Mat. 1:18)

3 - I have absolutely nothing against Jesus but against Paul who made of Jesus a son of God without a biological human father. (Acts 9:20) I am not reading back to you from a Jewish translation but from a Christian one aka KJV.

 

[Ben Masada]

1 - This is unfortunately what most Jews believe about Christians, but it is not true. They are varied in different denominations with their own slant on scriptures, and even on whether or not they love their brethren the Jews. None of it is cut and dried, so you might want to study the core beliefs of the main denominations, so you can better tailor your replies to your audience.

2 - And all the Christians don't accept one another either. For instance to most non-Catholics, the Catholics are not considered Christians, nor are the Jehovah witnesses, or the Mormons.

3 - The line in the sand regarding them, is drawn around the acceptance of Yeshua being the Messiah and being in their hearts or not, a spiritual rebirth being the deciding factor. Hope this helps you understand. Peace

I. I can distinguish a Trinitarian Christian from another one who does not believe in the Trinity.

2 - As I am concerned, any one who believes Jesus was Christ, he or she is a Christian. I have debated "Jehovah Witnesses" and Mormons and both claimed Jesus to have been Christ, though from the gospel of Paul. (Acts 11:26)

3 - Parting from the principle that all Christians believe that Jesus was Christ, it goes without saying that they believe Jesus was the Messiah. Only Jews do not believe Jesus was the Messiah. Hence, they are Jewish and not Christians.

 

[Ben Masada]

Nope, only those who deny that the Holy Spirit fathered Jesus.

Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. (Matthew 1:18 NKJV)

But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. (Matthew 1:20 NKJV)

And who said that? The Hellenist who wrote the gospel of Matthew and attributed it to that apostle for apostolic credibility.

The Holy Spirit could not have fathered Jesus because He was not of the family of Zeus to have fathered a demigod which is the son of a god with an earthly woman. (Mat. 1:18) Sorry to disappoint you but this happens when Christians pick a Jew to to vandalize his Faith with Greek Mythology.

 

[Caino]

1 - Quote to me a Jewish religious expert who thinks differently from my thoughts about Jesus and I'll show you that even a regular Jew he is not.

2 - With this statement of yours, you are simply implying that Yahweh was of the likes of Zeus and that Jesus was a demigod which is the son of a god with an earthly woman. (Mat. 1:18)

3 - I have absolutely nothing against Jesus but against Paul who made of Jesus a son of God without a biological human father. (Acts 9:20) I am not reading back to you from a Jewish translation but from a Christian one aka KJV.

* Of coarse Jewish religious experts don't like Jesus, Judaism went off the rails after it was remade in Babylon. Judaism became worldly, ritualistic, nationalistic, racist, theologically segregated, tradition-bound and overly legalistic. You became extraordinarily stubborn, proud and hard headed people! You missed your calling!

* Ben, you seem religious as opposed to spiritual. If the Jews had only interpreted the scriptures spiritually they would have been in a better position to understand Jesus and accept his revelation and original gospel.

* The Jews did not fundamentally reject Jesus because of Paul, Paul was not a disciple of Jesus until several years after Jesus returned to heaven. With that you yourself still reject Jesus based on Judaism.

* Before Paul arrived on the scene Jesus alluded to his pre-existence, identify and return to the spirit world.

 

[Elia]

1+1+1 = 3 only in the natural world

Bs"d

It looks like we reached that point again in which the Christians come to tell us that 1 + 1 + 1 = 1.

And then they say that the Jews are blinded.....


"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction. The Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say: “Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things. Therefore behold, I will this once cause them to know, I will cause them to know My hand and My might; and they shall know that My name is Y-H-W-H.”
Jer 16:19-21

 

[Caino]

Bs"d

It looks like we reached that point again in which the Christians come to tell us that 1 + 1 + 1 = 1.

And then they say that the Jews are blinded.....


"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction. The Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say: “Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things. Therefore behold, I will this once cause them to know, I will cause them to know My hand and My might; and they shall know that My name is Y-H-W-H.”


Jer 16:19-21

"The Trinity is the first family of the universe, and God alone sits at the head of the table."

Rick Warren​

God is Spirit, in mans finite mind he finds it impossible to conceptualize God far beyond his concept of other people. Man tends to think of God as kind of an older man on a throne, long grey hair, long beard, looking down on the earth, somewhat frustrated in what he created.

Faith in Abrams agreement with God, who is spirit, does not rule out God manifest in divine subordinates indistinguishably unified with the will of the Absolute.

 

[TulipBee]

Bs"d

Read HERE why he is not.

There is only ONE God who IS ONE, and that is Y-H-W-H.

For the finer details look HERE.


"Serve Y-H-W-H! And if it seems evil to you to serve Y-H-W-H, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.
But as for me and my house, we will serve Y-H-W-H.”
Joshua 24:14-15

That one timeless, spaceless, numberless God is good according to the new testament! Jewish hates the new testaments.

 

[Elia]

1+1+1 = 3 only in the natural world

Bs"d

It just happens to be so that we are living in the natural world.

Worshipping anything or anybody else than Y-H-W-H is IDOLATRY.


“This is what Y-H-W-H says- Israel's King and Redeemer, Y-H-W-H Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no god.”
Isaiah 44:6

 

[Elia]

"The Trinity is the first family of the universe, and God alone sits at the head of the table."

Rick Warren​

Bs"d

You worship a whole divine family, and then you still claim you're not a polytheist.

Of course you are.


But there is only one God who is one, and besides Him there is no God:

שמע ישראל י-ה-ו-ה אלהנו י-ה-ו-ה אחד

Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE.​

And you shall love Y-H-W-H your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.
And these words which I command you this day shall be upon your heart;
and you shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise.
And you shall bind them as a sign upon your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.
And you shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.
Deut 6:4-9

The Jews until this day fulfill this commandment. Every morning they put upon their arm and upon their forehead their phylacteries, (prayer belts) that consist of black straps with black leather cubes, that contain parchment upon which is written this Biblical text that says that God is one. Upon the doorposts of the houses of the religious Jews there are small boxes or containers that also contain parchment upon which is written that God is one. During the morning and evening prayers the above text is recited which says that God is one.

Y-H-W-H, the one and only God who is one.

Beside Him there is no God, no Buddha, no Christ, no David Koresh; NOBODY.

Whoever worships anything or anybody else than Y-H-W-H is an IDOL WORSHIPPER.


"And God spoke all these words, saying, "I am Y-H-W-H your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME."
Ex 20:1+2


“This is what Y-H-W-H says- Israel's King and Redeemer, Y-H-W-H Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no god.”
Isaiah 44:6

 

[Caino]

Bs"d

You worship a whole divine family, and then you still claim you're not a polytheist.

Of course you are.


But there is only one God who is one, and besides Him there is no God:

שמע ישראל י-ה-ו-ה אלהנו י-ה-ו-ה אחד

Hear Israel, Y-H-W-H is our God, Y-H-W-H is ONE.​

And you shall love Y-H-W-H your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might.
And these words which I command you this day shall be upon your heart;
and you shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise.
And you shall bind them as a sign upon your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes.
And you shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.
Deut 6:4-9

The Jews until this day fulfill this commandment. Every morning they put upon their arm and upon their forehead their phylacteries, (prayer belts) that consist of black straps with black leather cubes, that contain parchment upon which is written this Biblical text that says that God is one. Upon the doorposts of the houses of the religious Jews there are small boxes or containers that also contain parchment upon which is written that God is one. During the morning and evening prayers the above text is recited which says that God is one.

Y-H-W-H, the one and only God who is one.

Beside Him there is no God, no Buddha, no Christ, no David Koresh; NOBODY.

Whoever worships anything or anybody else than Y-H-W-H is an IDOL WORSHIPPER.


"And God spoke all these words, saying, "I am Y-H-W-H your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME."
Ex 20:1+2


“This is what Y-H-W-H says- Israel's King and Redeemer, Y-H-W-H Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no god.”
Isaiah 44:6

The Hebrews who wrote and rewrote the Old Testament books, were doing the best they could in maintaining the concept of "oneness" in contrast to the beliefs of surrounding cultures that had many Gods. In my religion Jesus is a Son of the Trinity, an existential personification of God who is Spirit. These things are basically too complex for the understanding of the finite mind so it becomes a matter of faith.


1:7.6 The higher concepts of universe personality imply: identity, self-consciousness, self-will, and possibility for self-revelation. And these characteristics further imply fellowship with other and equal personalities, such as exists in the personality associations of the Paradise Deities. And the absolute unity of these associations is so perfect that divinity becomes known by indivisibility, by oneness. “The Lord God is one.” Indivisibility of personality does not interfere with God's bestowing his spirit to live in the hearts of mortal men. Indivisibility of a human father's personality does not prevent the reproduction of mortal sons and daughters.

1:7.7 This concept of indivisibility in association with the concept of unity implies transcendence of both time and space by the Ultimacy of Deity; therefore neither space nor time can be absolute or infinite. The First Source and Center is that infinity who unqualifiedly transcends all mind, all matter, and all spirit.

1:7.8 The fact of the Paradise Trinity in no manner violates the truth of the divine unity. The three personalities of Paradise Deity are, in all universe reality reactions and in all creature relations, as one. Neither does the existence of these three eternal persons violate the truth of the indivisibility of Deity. I am fully aware that I have at my command no language adequate to make clear to the mortal mind how these universe problems appear to us. But you should not become discouraged; not all of these things are wholly clear to even the high personalities belonging to my group of Paradise beings. Ever bear in mind that these profound truths pertaining to Deity will increasingly clarify as your minds become progressively spiritualized during the successive epochs of the long mortal ascent to Paradise.

Urantia Book 1955

 

[beloved57]

Just accept the Biblical fact that God is one

One golden calf?

 

[Elia]

One golden calf?

Bs"d

I see you have problems accepting that there is no God but Y-H-W-H and that Y-H-W-H is one.


“This is what Y-H-W-H says- Israel's King and Redeemer, Y-H-W-H Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no god.”
Isaiah 44:6

 

[beloved57]

Bs"d

I see you have problems accepting that there is no God but Y-H-W-H and that Y-H-W-H is one.


“This is what Y-H-W-H says- Israel's King and Redeemer, Y-H-W-H Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no god.”
Isaiah 44:6

Like the jews did? They worship the golden calf as god!

Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk

 

[jsanford108]

Dear Elia,

You are clearly of Jewish persuasion. Which I highly respect and admire. But your assessment of the beliefs of Christians is skewed slightly.

To illustrate how God can be One, in three distinct forms, let us use the teachings of St Patrick. A clover has three leaves. Each leaf is individual and separate from the other two. Yet, the leaves are joined together in a single unit, ie: the clover.

Also, keep in mind that in the NT, Christ said "I and the Father are one." Such a phrase was blasphemous in Jewish culture. Christ was claiming He was God incarnate. Hence, the outrage of the Pharisees. Now, how can God be the Father and the Son? Either Christ is God, or a raving lunatic. If He is God, He cannot contradict Himself. So by saying that He is two, it must be possible, if the conclusion is that He is God.

Finally, why could God not be a Trinity, if He claims to be? To say He can't seems to be limiting Him. To be putting restrictions on Him. Granted, there are millions of rebuttals to this point, but they should be addressed individually.