Judaic Christians and Pagan Christians

CherubRam

CherubRam

New member
[FONT=&quot]Judaic Christians and Pagan Christians.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

It seems that most Christians are oblivious to the fact that they are taking part in Paganism.[/FONT]

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[FONT=&quot]Which one are you?[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Tip of the iceberg. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In 321 Constantine instructed that Christians and non-Christians should be united in observing the venerable day of the sun, referencing the esoteric eastern sun-worship which Aurelian followed the principle of "one god, one empire", that was later adopted to a full extent by Constantine. His coinage carried the symbols of the sun-cult until 324. Even when he dedicated the new capital of Constantinople, which became the seat of Byzantine Christianity for a millennium, he did so wearing the Apollonian sun-rayed Diadem.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Constantine retained the pagan high priest's title of Pontifex Maximus; and for a decade his coins continued to feature some of the pagan gods, notably his own favorite deity, the Unconquered Sun.[/FONT]
 
CherubRam

CherubRam

New member
Should a person change? Is tradition more important? I have been told before that the person is holding to traditions.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
But at the same time, Cherub, the Law was called 'the weak and miserable elements of the world' in Gal 4 and Col 2. You would have to criticize all such at the same time fairly. The answer is not going to be found in what externals you observe or those you chop down, but only "in Christ." You can then enjoy the Paschal lamb without forgetting that Christ is the fulfillment of that, and also be reminded of what the sun provides us each day without worshiping it.
 
CherubRam

CherubRam

New member
Interplanner said:
But at the same time, Cherub, the Law was called 'the weak and miserable elements of the world' in Gal 4 and Col 2. You would have to criticize all such at the same time fairly. The answer is not going to be found in what externals you observe or those you chop down, but only "in Christ." You can then enjoy the Paschal lamb without forgetting that Christ is the fulfillment of that, and also be reminded of what the sun provides us each day without worshiping it.
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Those texts are referring to the festivals and sacrifices. They have nothing to do with the Sabbath and moral commands of God.
 
deborah

deborah

New member
Don't think this is a black and white answer as most Christian practices and holidays originate from pagan history and tradition .


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I

Interplanner

Well-known member
CherubRam said:
Those texts are referring to the festivals and sacrifices. They have nothing to do with the Sabbath and moral commands of God.
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But sabbaths was in those Gal 4 and Col 2 lists. Then Hebrews tells us there is a Sabbath rest in Christ, which shifts everything anyway.
 
1Mind1Spirit

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
deborah said:
Don't think this is a black and white answer as most Christian practices and holidays originate from pagan history and tradition .


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Click to expand...

1Cor 10:27 - If any of those who do not believe invites you to dinner, and you desire to go, eat whatever is set before you, asking no question for conscience' sake.

28 But if anyone says to you, "This was offered to idols," do not eat it for the sake of the one who told you, and for conscience' sake; for "the earth is Yahweh's, and all its fullness."

29 "Conscience," I say, not your own, but that of the other. For why is my liberty judged by another man's conscience?
 
CherubRam

CherubRam

New member
Interplanner said:
But sabbaths was in those Gal 4 and Col 2 lists. Then Hebrews tells us there is a Sabbath rest in Christ, which shifts everything anyway.
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There are other "Sabbaths" besides the "Seventh Day Sabbath." Could you locate where is says Christ is our Sabbath?
 
CherubRam

CherubRam

New member
Constantine the Great formed the motto "one God, one Lord, one faith, one church, one empire, one emperor."

So whats wrong with that you may ask? Well for a start it has become one God in three persons. The one faith is the Catholic doctrines, the one Church is the Catholic Church. And so on.
 
C

clefty

New member
Interplanner said:
But at the same time, Cherub, the Law was called 'the weak and miserable elements of the world' in Gal 4 and Col 2. You would have to criticize all such at the same time fairly. The answer is not going to be found in what externals you observe or those you chop down, but only "in Christ." You can then enjoy the Paschal lamb without forgetting that Christ is the fulfillment of that, and also be reminded of what the sun provides us each day without worshiping it.
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Why did Paul and the apostles keep on keeping on then?...with the Sabbath and the festivals...Peter even kept kosher
 
CherubRam

CherubRam

New member
Christians are not under the sacrifice and ceremonial laws of Moses, but we are still under the commands of God. There were other sabbath days of rest that are not the Seventh Day Sabbath Rest.
 
deborah

deborah

New member
1Mind1Spirit said:
1Cor 10:27 - If any of those who do not believe invites you to dinner, and you desire to go, eat whatever is set before you, asking no question for conscience' sake.

28 But if anyone says to you, "This was offered to idols," do not eat it for the sake of the one who told you, and for conscience' sake; for "the earth is Yahweh's, and all its fullness."

29 "Conscience," I say, not your own, but that of the other. For why is my liberty judged by another man's conscience?
Click to expand...

Not sure what point you making here . But I will say that Paul obviously disregarded Jesus and the apostles teaching on this .


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deborah

deborah

New member
CherubRam said:
Pagans have pagan practices and traditions, non-pagans do not.
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Not what I said , Christians have taken on many pagan practices and stories that they don't even know about , yet convince themselves they are not pagan .


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1Mind1Spirit

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
deborah said:
Not sure what point you making here . But I will say that Paul obviously disregarded Jesus and the apostles teaching on this .


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Click to expand...

How did he disregard Jesus?

14Once again Jesus called the crowd to Him and said, “All of you, listen to Me and understand:

15Nothing that enters a man from the outside can defile him; but the things that come out of a man, these are what defile him.” …
 
CherubRam

CherubRam

New member
[FONT=&quot]In 167 BC the Hellenistic priest took control of the temple and people.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Matthew 15[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]8 “‘These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
9 They worship me in vain;
their teachings are merely human rules.’”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10 Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen and understand. 11 What goes into someone’s mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12 Then the disciples came to him and asked, “Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this?”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]13 He replied, “Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots. 14 Leave them; they are blind guides. If the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]15 Peter said, “Explain the parable to us.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]16 “Are you still so dull?” Jesus asked them. 17 “Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18 But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them. 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20 These are what defile a person; but eating with unwashed hands does not defile them.”[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]John 4:23[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]John 4:24[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]False doctrine.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]False doctrine is what has been added to the scriptures. It is also traditions contrary to the truth and God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 Timothy 1:3[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][ Timothy Charged to Oppose False Teachers ] As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain people not to teach false doctrines any longer[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]1 Timothy 1:10[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]1 Timothy 4:16[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Watch your life and doctrine closely.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]2 Timothy 4:3[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Titus 1:9[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Titus 2:1[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][ Doing Good for the Sake of the Gospel ] You, however, must teach what is appropriate to sound doctrine.[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]What is the truth? The truth is that some follow Pagan traditions. If it was not a teaching in Orthodox Judaism, then you are following a lie. Yahshua and the disciples would not have taught anything that promotes Paganism.[/FONT]
 
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