Sure, Mary had faith that Jesus was the savior of the world, just like everybody else.
John Calvin's Nazi God.
- Thread starter Robert Pate
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Sure, Mary had faith that Jesus was the savior of the world, just like everybody else.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
The Bible is not the only religious book in the universe that has 'truth statements',...there are many others available, from many different authors, religious traditions and schools of philosophy.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Yes, thank 'God' for it,...for the natural worship of God as 'Mother' is satisfied in the veneration of Mary. Other religious traditions have their divine 'Mother' figures, Goddesses, female archetypes etc.
Sacred Wind (Divine Mother)
You have no idea what breathed by God means
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Quite the contrary,...any more than your own limited intellectual conception of the 'idea' might conceive of the concept
As of yet, no evidence has been provided to disprove the 'Nazi god' description of the God of Calvin, who PASSES OVER souls, just to randomly select a few as his trophies of grace to adorn his fireplace with. - after all this his 'game', his rules,...so he can cheat as he likes.
God, himself, said total depravity is true. He wrote that for real. He really wrote the bible. God has the give itQuite the contrary,...any more than your own limited intellectual conception of the 'idea' might conceive of the concept
As of yet, no evidence has been provided to disprove the 'Nazi god' description of the God of Calvin, who PASSES OVER souls, just to randomly select a few as his trophies of grace to adorn his fireplace with. - after all this his 'game', his rules,...so he can cheat as he likes.
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Neuroscientists SAID FREE WILL DONT EXIST
http://io9.gizmodo.com/5975778/scientific-evidence-that-you-probably-dont-have-free-will
http://io9.gizmodo.com/5975778/scientific-evidence-that-you-probably-dont-have-free-will
Really dumb. Everyone is born with a free will. God does not create robots like you want to believe. You and you alone, are responsible for your salvation.
You can engineer ants to literally walk around a cylinder following each other until they died- because at the kernel of life there is no free will. Whatever complicated mass of physics would lead to an outcome of free will is something I doubt would exist even as far as humans, at least to the degree which free will enthusiasts put it.
Humans at best experience free will in the 'second degree'- we are consistently moved by factors our will has no power over.
People who argue free will immediately begin to replace God's freedom of choice with man's- they'll start saying "God is perfect, He cannot do this or that" and then say of man "We can do this and we can do that, and if we cannot than God is wicked'.
That's not a kosher argument, at all- that is saying that God created agents more free than Himself.
Humans at best experience free will in the 'second degree'- we are consistently moved by factors our will has no power over.
People who argue free will immediately begin to replace God's freedom of choice with man's- they'll start saying "God is perfect, He cannot do this or that" and then say of man "We can do this and we can do that, and if we cannot than God is wicked'.
That's not a kosher argument, at all- that is saying that God created agents more free than Himself.
Robots breathe air under God like God gives faith
To understand God is to be in the present and stay there. Most of us can't stay there. They babble about the past and the future, boasting. You can't boaat in the present. This is the meaning of living God . You go with the flow, breathing while God commands every heartbeat. You don't just will your heart to stop.
But the dolphins can
To understand God is to be in the present and stay there. Most of us can't stay there. They babble about the past and the future, boasting. You can't boaat in the present. This is the meaning of living God . You go with the flow, breathing while God commands every heartbeat. You don't just will your heart to stop.
But the dolphins can
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
The Lord Jesus is fully man and fully God. As "God" His will is in perfect conformity to both the Holy Spirit and to the Father.
However, the Lord Jesus took on flesh and became like man in all things (Heb.2:17). And as man He has a free will (Mt.26:39).
"By his providence God protects and governs all things which he has made, reaching mightily from one end of the earth to the other, and ordering all things well. For all are open and laid bare to his eyes, even those things which are yet to come into existence through the free action of creatures."
Emphasis mine.
Emphasis mine.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Reality and Freedom of Choice...............
Reality and Freedom of Choice...............
God by definition of his Deityhood, certainly himself has free will, but in accord with his own nature, character and constitution, since his 'will' inherent to his Being would not violate its constitution, or this Being could not be 'God' by definition.
It would then be logical to assume that if this 'God' gave to souls 'freedom' in the same degree or fashion that He himself has, but of course to a lesser finite degree, in as much as man's freedom would be naturally limited to certain conditioning factors both within and without, YET still having genuine freedom of choice within those parameters....man would be able to exercise his freedom and have real responsibility. He would therefore have no grounds whatsoever to complain to 'God' about the consequences for his choices, since 'God' sets before all the clear paths to blessings or calamity, LIFE or DEATH, and calls the witness of all creation, plus his own WORD, that these are the available options, - He is then so Kind to instruct us, because it is LOVE's will, to CHOOSE LIFE. - He must in all fairness allow all the full opportunity to CHOOSE in the space allotted.
A 'god' who doesn't really give freedom of choice and predetermines souls to a fate that they have no power to personally choose or reject for themselves, robs man of his genuine freedom and the very enterprise and free expression of LOVE, the potentials and possibilities of LIFE itself. This kind of 'god' is NOT loving, fair, merciful, good, let alone JUST.
One would be just to protest such a 'god'.
Reality and Freedom of Choice...............
God by definition of his Deityhood, certainly himself has free will, but in accord with his own nature, character and constitution, since his 'will' inherent to his Being would not violate its constitution, or this Being could not be 'God' by definition.
It would then be logical to assume that if this 'God' gave to souls 'freedom' in the same degree or fashion that He himself has, but of course to a lesser finite degree, in as much as man's freedom would be naturally limited to certain conditioning factors both within and without, YET still having genuine freedom of choice within those parameters....man would be able to exercise his freedom and have real responsibility. He would therefore have no grounds whatsoever to complain to 'God' about the consequences for his choices, since 'God' sets before all the clear paths to blessings or calamity, LIFE or DEATH, and calls the witness of all creation, plus his own WORD, that these are the available options, - He is then so Kind to instruct us, because it is LOVE's will, to CHOOSE LIFE. - He must in all fairness allow all the full opportunity to CHOOSE in the space allotted.
A 'god' who doesn't really give freedom of choice and predetermines souls to a fate that they have no power to personally choose or reject for themselves, robs man of his genuine freedom and the very enterprise and free expression of LOVE, the potentials and possibilities of LIFE itself. This kind of 'god' is NOT loving, fair, merciful, good, let alone JUST.
One would be just to protest such a 'god'.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Divine Providence includes the ultimatum of both life and death......
Divine Providence includes the ultimatum of both life and death......
Indeed, if God has given us freedom of choice, then his omniscience includes knowledge of all potentials and possibilities that such freedom of choice could lead to. His 'foreknowledge' may or may not include knowing absolutely of all free will choices or sinful acts of his children in future time, but nothing could really surprise God since He knows all that is actually knowable from eternity past to every rising moment of existence (all that is ABLE to be known). - Now the question of whether God knows the future FULLY (on a micro level of the finest of every minute detail), is debated among some, especially from an Open View perspective. - with true free will, this open future is truly 'open' granted the potential and possibilities of free will choice. Some believe this limits God or infringes on his sovereignty, his omnipotence...and somehow makes man's will more powerful than God's will.
Perhaps thats the risk of giving sentient beings freedom, yet even if some are lost or choose self-destruction (this being possible with true freedom), I gather the greater values, virtues and qualities of real good, truth, beauty, wisdom, will to life, true worship of God, desire for love's fulfillment....would ultimately prevail in the whole, even if it might not prevail in the part, granted that some souls(parts) may forfeit their lives in choosing a path of iniquity leading to death. In this system,...free will among souls enables them to co-create and evolve with 'God', thus augmenting the experiential joy, learning, comprehension and ascension of life itself, in the the network of ever ascending Creation, while it also risks the possibility of some loss of individual life.
* A view of free will from a higher cosmic perspective
How much more just and merciful does this system of free enterprise, genuine freedom and responsibility compare, with the Calvinist system of predestination which includes both irrestible grace or irreversible preterition? (see all links) You decide. Let your conscience and Spirit of truth guide.
Divine Providence includes the ultimatum of both life and death......
Indeed, if God has given us freedom of choice, then his omniscience includes knowledge of all potentials and possibilities that such freedom of choice could lead to. His 'foreknowledge' may or may not include knowing absolutely of all free will choices or sinful acts of his children in future time, but nothing could really surprise God since He knows all that is actually knowable from eternity past to every rising moment of existence (all that is ABLE to be known). - Now the question of whether God knows the future FULLY (on a micro level of the finest of every minute detail), is debated among some, especially from an Open View perspective. - with true free will, this open future is truly 'open' granted the potential and possibilities of free will choice. Some believe this limits God or infringes on his sovereignty, his omnipotence...and somehow makes man's will more powerful than God's will.
Perhaps thats the risk of giving sentient beings freedom, yet even if some are lost or choose self-destruction (this being possible with true freedom), I gather the greater values, virtues and qualities of real good, truth, beauty, wisdom, will to life, true worship of God, desire for love's fulfillment....would ultimately prevail in the whole, even if it might not prevail in the part, granted that some souls(parts) may forfeit their lives in choosing a path of iniquity leading to death. In this system,...free will among souls enables them to co-create and evolve with 'God', thus augmenting the experiential joy, learning, comprehension and ascension of life itself, in the the network of ever ascending Creation, while it also risks the possibility of some loss of individual life.
* A view of free will from a higher cosmic perspective
How much more just and merciful does this system of free enterprise, genuine freedom and responsibility compare, with the Calvinist system of predestination which includes both irrestible grace or irreversible preterition? (see all links) You decide. Let your conscience and Spirit of truth guide.
If man does not have a free will then he is not human. He is nothing more than a puppet. Calvinist deny free will so that they can make God responsible for their sins and their unbelief.
God's Truth
New member
Back to your OP. You say that John Calvin's God is a Nazi God, and I say your God who condemns people for obeying Him is worse.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Indeed,....while in the greater cosmic context....God could be assumed to be responsible for all evil and calamity, if he has given man genuine free will, there must be responsibility on man's part for the evil and calamity in the world, in as much as actually brought into being by his freedom to choose a path that has negative and harmful consequences. In the allowing of all good and evil potentials in the universe, the Great MIND behind all creation knows all possibilities of such free will. Love allows for this, and in such allowance is 'risk',...but for genuine free will to BE,...the total spectrum of possible conditions and destinies must exist, in every moment in time and eternity, there being various factors affecting such determinations. If a soul's choice regarding eternal destiny is in fact 'sovereign', concerning one's own individual condition, then that soul must be given the perogatives and ultimatums of life and death, and so make a choice between them. This system is wholly fair, just and merciful because it gives ample space and time to all sentient beings to make a genuine CHOICE, to be truly responsible.
The 'god' who does not allow for such provisions to free moral agents is a tryant. There is no way out of this conundrum, unless one re-evaluates their theology and philosophical arguments and seeks for a better way where logic, reason, intelligence and real justice and mercy are brought into their true place, concerning the real value of man, and his opportunity to be all he can be in God.
God's Truth
New member
There is only one God, and He is the God of the Holy Bible, and He is the God who says He is a jealous God and not to go to other gods. He is the God who says other gods are about demons.
Do you know what the thief is, the one who does not go through the gate?
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
What I shared stands, and there is more to discuss/research concerning free will, foreknowledge and predestination
- Like to stay on topic dear,....there is enough dovetailing on the forum here as it is - and yes.....the thread-title description is pretty spot on :thumb:Is there a reason your 'visitor messages' area is turned off? - I think its a nice feature, to expand dialogue on
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