John Calvin's Nazi God.

[God's Truth]

Invalid and False statement not found in scripture !

1 Timothy 2:4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth

 

[Lon]

As God the Lord Jesus has that right just because He is God. That certainly does not answer why it is said that He tasted death for every man:

"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man" (Heb.2:9).​

No, not by themselves. The LORD commissions Christians to preach the gospel so that the unsaved can believe and be saved (Ro.10-17). I



Here Paul tells us exactly how we are saved:

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).​

Quick question, again just to stir a bit of sympathy for my side: Doesn't that seem to make salvation a luck of the draw? We Calvinists get accused of that, I'm just trying to get you to see that we aren't the only ones. We are trying to make sense of something difficult given in scriptures...

A thought that I think coincides with Calvinistic thought: Can you choose to sleep? I say 'No." I know it doesn't help for the whole consideration, but I think it illustrates actual choice. I don't think it really exists. It does not shed light then on why some never get saved, BUT I'm certain that Arminian and Open Theology don't answer that adequately either. For the Calvinist (and this is an important consideration I'd really hope others would pay attention to): I simply trust God for what I don't necessarily understand BECAUSE He is good. I know it looks the opposite, I'm just trying to tell you why I particularly am not evil, nor believe God is evil. IOW, it doesn't matter as much what 'it looks like to some.' I know God CAN'T be evil so my Calvinism is an act of faith about things that are wholly in the hands of God. I 'think' that most others try to answer something Calvinists simply trust God for. It is kind of like the parental "Because I said so." I 'think' that it is similar. Some kids think "because I said so" is evil. A lot of them actually. For me, my parents were loving so even though to others, it looked unfair, I implicitly knew it wasn't at least the majority of the time (my parents weren't perfect like God). Does any of this help? Have a ring of some truth unconsidered at least?

 

[God's Truth]

As God the Lord Jesus has that right just because He is God. That certainly does not answer why it is said that He tasted death for every man:

"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man" (Heb.2:9).​

No, not by themselves. The LORD commissions Christians to preach the gospel so that the unsaved can believe and be saved (Ro.10-17). I



Here Paul tells us exactly how we are saved:

"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house" (Acts 16:30-31).​

All the scriptures that say 'believe', those scriptures do not nullify all the scriptures that say 'obey'.

What do we have to believe?

We have to believe that we have to obey.

We believe that Jesus' blood washes away the sins we repent of doing.

 

[Lon]

Jesus says we know them by their fruit. He does not say we know they by their doctrine.

Christian community seem to disregard Jesus' teachings, warnings and admonishment.

I know a LOT of nonChristians that are pretty nice. Does that mean they are saved and I am not?

Yes, our spiritual fruit and service is first and foremost.

'Doctrine' has its place however, but it must be consonant with the values and ethical principles of 'true religion', as defined by James....and generally described by the moral laws and codes in the scriptures that are always universally and eternally true regarding our relations with others.

See? FLPJ denies the atoning work of the Lord Jesus Christ. Is he a Christian by virtue of his actions while rejecting the Lord Jesus Christ? :think: John 4:24 Memorize it?

 

[God's Truth]

Quick question, again just to stir a bit of sympathy for my side: Doesn't that seem to make salvation a luck of the draw? We Calvinists get accused of that, I'm just trying to get you to see that we aren't the only ones. We are trying to make sense of something difficult given in scriptures...

A thought that I think coincides with Calvinistic thought: Can you choose to sleep? I say 'No." I know it doesn't help for the whole consideration, but I think it illustrates actual choice. I don't think it really exists. It does not shed light then on why some never get saved, BUT I'm certain that Arminian and Open Theology don't answer that adequately either. For the Calvinist (and this is an important consideration I'd really hope others would pay attention to): I simply trust God for what I don't necessarily understand BECAUSE He is good. I know it looks the opposite, I'm just trying to tell you why I particularly am not evil, nor believe God is evil. IOW, it doesn't matter as much what 'it looks like to some.' I know God CAN'T be evil so my Calvinism is an act of faith about things that are wholly in the hands of God. I 'think' that most others try to answer something Calvinists simply trust God for. It is kind of like the parental "Because I said so." I 'think' that it is similar. Some kids think "because I said so" is evil. A lot of them actually. For me, my parents were loving so even though to others, it looked unfair, I implicitly knew it wasn't at least the majority of the time (my parents weren't perfect like God). Does any of this help? Have a ring of some truth unconsidered at least?

God tells us to search, and God searches our minds and hearts.

We have to do something.

Even demons believe and do something, they shudder.

What makes you think humans do not have to do anything?

Even an evil demon knows better than that.

 

[God's Truth]

I know a LOT of nonChristians that are pretty nice. Does that mean they are saved and I am not? :think: John 4:24 Memorize it?

The truth is that we have to obey everything that Jesus tells us.

Jesus tells us how to get saved.

The difference between people who do good and reject Christ, they are not obeying everything that Jesus says.

 

[beloved57]

1 Timothy 2:4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth

That's the Elect!

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[God's Truth]

That's the Elect!

God wants all men to be saved. That is ALL men. The elect, according to you, they are already saved.

 

[beloved57]

God wants all men to be saved. That is ALL men. The elect, according to you, they are already saved.

Sure all His Elect

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[God's Truth]

Sure all His Elect

Since you say all the elect are those already saved, how is it that God wants all to be saved? That is an oxymoron statement in the way you explain it.

 

[beloved57]

Since you say all the elect are those already saved, how is it that God wants all to be saved? That is an oxymoron statement in the way you explain it.

The Elect are saved also when they come to the knowledge of the truth. The Elect are not born naturally as sinners with the knowledge that they are saved.

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[God's Truth]

The Elect are saved also when they come to the knowledge of the truth. The Elect are not born naturally as sinners with the knowledge that they are saved.

But if an elect dies before hearing that he is an elect, lol, then is he saved?

 

[beloved57]

But if an elect dies before hearing that they are the elect, lol, then is he saved?

The Elect are saved before they hear. They are saved while they are enemies Rom 5:10

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[meshak]

I know a LOT of nonChristians that are pretty nice. Does that mean they are saved and I am not?

If you don't honor Jesus' teaching and claiming to be His followers or saved, you are much worse than non-believers, because you are lying to God and Jesus.

If non-believers learn about Jesus' teaching and they become His followers, they will be much godlier than just "nice".

 

[Jerry Shugart]

It does not shed light then on why some never get saved, BUT I'm certain that Arminian and Open Theology don't answer that adequately either.

The Scriptures explain why some don't ever get saved:

"And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God" (Jn.3:19-21).​

Here the reason some are not saved is because of their own actions, and not because they were not chosen by God to be saved. Here is another reason why some people are neversaved:

"And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God" (2 Cor.4:3-4).​

This passage proves that even those who are perishing could have been saved if their minds were not blinded to the light of the gospel. Those perishing are not perishing because the LORD determined beforehand that they would not be saved.

 

[God's Truth]

The Elect are saved before they hear. They are saved while they are enemies Rom 5:10

Did you forget what you just said to me in your post before this one?

YOU SAID they have to hear.

Now you say they are saved before they hear.

So again, if the elect are saved already, WHY WOULD 'all' be all the elect in the scripture where God desire that all men be saved? According to you they are ALREADY SAVED.

 

[beloved57]

Did you forget what you just said to me in your post before this one?

YOU SAID they have to hear.

Now you say they are saved before they hear.

So again, if the elect are saved already, WHY WOULD 'all' be all the elect in the scripture where God desire that all men be saved? According to you they are ALREADY SAVED.

Yes, they do have to hear and shall hear that they are saved.

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[God's Truth]

Listen to the blunder beloved57 said:

The Elect are saved also when they come to the knowledge of the truth.

 

[God's Truth]

Yes, they do have to hear and shall hear that they are saved.

So now you say an elect has to HEAR to be saved?

You said before that they are already saved.

So what happens to the elect that dies before he hears?

 

[beloved57]

Did you forget what you just said to me in your post before this one?

YOU SAID they have to hear.

Now you say they are saved before they hear.

So again, if the elect are saved already, WHY WOULD 'all' be all the elect in the scripture where God desire that all men be saved? According to you they are ALREADY SAVED.

Jesus says that His Sheep shall hear His voice Jn 10:16

And other*sheep*I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they*shall hear*my voice; and there*shall*be one fold, and one shepherd.

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