John Calvin's Nazi God.

[beloved57]

Are we seriously still asking? Many have been shared with you already, clearly, plainly SHOWING tha Man has freedom of choice, with GOD (remember him?) declaring and decreeing to heaven and earth as a testimony (as witnesses),...that He places before them life or death, blessings or cursing, and the INSTRUCTS them to CHOOSE life. How biblically inept do you have to be to deny this? Its mind boggling.

Also, every day human experience proves we have freedom of choice within any given situation or event,...that freedom is limited of course within the context of possible choices, but its there nevertheless.

Show me one scripture that says man has a freewill. Those in the flesh can't please God Rom 8:8 !

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[God's Truth]

Jesus said that he came into the world to save sinners, I qualify. You don't.

You are not supposed to stay a sinner.

If you still are a sinner and not holy then you are not saved.


Romans 1:7 To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be his holy people: Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:2 To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be his holy people, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours:

2 Corinthians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, To the church of God in Corinth, together with all his holy people throughout Achaia:

Ephesians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To God’s holy people in Ephesus, the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Ephesians 1:18 I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in his holy people,

Ephesians 3:18 may have power, together with all the Lord’s holy people, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ,

...and many more.


I cannot find scripture where Paul calls us the sinners in Christ. You need to get saved by repenting of your sins and calling on Jesus to help you.

 

[God's Truth]

Yes, we've assumed the Calvinist 'god' to be a nazi god of sorts, whose love is selective at best, and whose will includes the eternal suffering, torment or utter destruction of a group of souls, just because he happened to specially pick them to be 'damned', and only elected a small group for his bestowed salvation, wholly unmerited, and utterly non-dependent of their own will and choice. YES, this makes for a maniacal 'god' at best, and the exuse for this 'god' being "he is 'God' so he can do as he pleases!" is ludicrous. One cannot worship a 'god' who goes contrary to conscience.

That is a very good explanation.

Well, thats a matter of interpretation. There is One 'God',...yet many forms, pathways, tributaries, personifications, images, and names of this One 'God'.

Not different locations and different stories.

A matter of 'interpretation' again. Any lover of God will naturally strive to 'obey' his God's laws and principled teachings, because they are true, good and lawful.

You cannot speak for every believer.

Any transgression of natural or divine law is 'sin', anything missing the mark of love (divine perfection and fullness) is 'sin'. Until we are wholly perfected in love, living by love's perfect law, perfect even as 'God' is perfect,...there will be some taint or imperfection of 'sin' in us. We are striving towards perfection in the divine nature while in these carnal bodies, so 'sanctification' is a 'process', no matter our view of what comes first...."the chicken or the egg?" - to use the metaphor we alluded to earlier.

The moment a person is saved, they are made clean and are perfect and holy, they are sanctified and purified. They are born again with no sin. After a person is saved they are to live up to that. That is what the Word of God says.

 

[freelight]

More BIBLE for you? Here you go.......

More BIBLE for you? Here you go.......

We wanna hear from the Bible, not urantia

We've already shared plenty of scriptures that support freedom of choice plus videos from Rabbis here that may teach you a thing or two about the Jewish view as well. I've also shared some wonderful insights from the Urantia Book as well here,....besides these two sources and other religious books, we also have everyday human experience that proves we have freedom to choose among so many options at any given moment or situation. If you deny that, then you deny common sense logic and rational thinking.

Dont forget,...'God' himself calls heaven and earth as a witness, to the reality that His people have the freedom to choose. Yet you would deny the scripture? Apparently so. Lets review -

Restoration Promised

30 “So it shall be when all of these things have come upon you, the blessing and the curse which I have set before you, and you call them to mind in all nations where the Lord your God has banished you, 2 and you return to the Lord your God and obey Him with all your heart and soul according to all that I command you today, you and your sons, 3 then the Lord your God will restore you from captivity, and have compassion on you, and will gather you again from all the peoples where the Lord your God has scattered you. 4 If your outcasts are at the ends of the earth, from there the Lord your God will gather you, and from there He will bring you back. 5 The Lord your God will bring you into the land which your fathers possessed, and you shall possess it; and He will prosper you and multiply you more than your fathers.

6 “Moreover the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, so that you may live. 7 The Lord your God will inflict all these curses on your enemies and on those who hate you, who persecuted you. 8 And you shall again obey the Lord, and observe all His commandments which I command you today. 9 Then the Lord your God will prosper you abundantly in all the work of your hand, in the offspring of your body and in the offspring of your cattle and in the produce of your ground, for the Lord will again rejoice over you for good, just as He rejoiced over your fathers; 10 if you obey the Lord your God to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this book of the law, if you turn to the Lord your God with all your heart and soul.

11 “For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach. 12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will cross the sea for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ 14 But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it.


Choose Life

15 “See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, and death and adversity; 16 in that I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in His ways and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His judgments, that you may live and multiply, and that the Lord your God may bless you in the land where you are entering to possess it. 17 But if your heart turns away and you will not obey, but are drawn away and worship other gods and serve them, 18 I declare to you today that you shall surely perish. You will not prolong your days in the land where you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess it. 19 I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,

-Deuteronomy 30:1-19 (NASB)

Now notice this 'scripture' has 'God' (YHWH) Himself speaking, by decree,...and such an important one that HEAVEN and EARTH are called to be witnesses along with God and all creation, that He has given man the freedom to choose. Not only 'God' himself, but heaven and earth....3 witnesses, as if God's decree alone was not enough. This is standard cardinal teaching within Judaism, plainly revealed in their SCRIPTURES, that man has 'free will'. Anyone who denies this, denies God himself, heaven and earth, and his own God-given freedom.

 

[TulipBee]

We've already shared plenty of scriptures that support freedom of choice plus videos from Rabbis here that may teach you a thing or two about the Jewish view as well. I've also shared some wonderful insights from the Urantia Book as well here,....besides these two sources and other religious books, we also have everyday human experience that proves we have freedom to choose among so many options at any given moment or situation. If you deny that, then you deny common sense logic and rational thinking.

Dont forget,...'God' himself calls heaven and earth as a witness, to the reality that His people have the freedom to choose. Yet you would deny the scripture? Apparently so. Lets review -



Now notice this 'scripture' has 'God' (YHWH) Himself speaking, by decree,...and such an important one that HEAVEN and EARTH are called to be witnesses along with God and all creation, that He has given man the freedom to choose. Not only 'God' himself, but heaven and earth....3 witnesses, as if God's decree alone was not enough. This is standard cardinal teaching within Judaism, plainly revealed in their SCRIPTURES, that man has 'free will'. Anyone who denies this, denies God himself, heaven and earth, and his own God-given freedom.

All that is said while we're not abled convicts us of our sins. We should but none wanted to. All of mankind don't want to please God. Different story on that when Jesus saved. We provided many quotes that tells us were not able. When God said we should and we're not able then we should know our core is more rotten than we think. You make it that we were never born as a sinner and boast. You make sin so clean but we provided quotes that tells us the real conditions of our sin. It's far much worst than you know. You have no clue what hell is like cause you deny hell exists. You try to make us look stupid with your dark celestial languages but the Bible, which you deny, is all we got. We got convicted and made us aware the unrantia is false since it denied it was breathed by God according to your favorite unfamiliar celestials that are stupid. We know Melchizedek in the 66 book Bible. We don't need stories about Melchizedek from dark spirits. That's why we look stupid to you. Our truths are from God via the Bible, alone. Sin itself looks stupid to you. You told us why we're able when God tells us we're not abled. In other words , real Christians understand what total depravity means. You're blind to that. We are born sinners. You boast about your sinless flesh.

 

[Robert Pate]

You are not supposed to stay a sinner.

If you still are a sinner and not holy then you are not saved.


Romans 1:7 To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be his holy people: Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:2 To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be his holy people, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours:

2 Corinthians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, To the church of God in Corinth, together with all his holy people throughout Achaia:

Ephesians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To God’s holy people in Ephesus, the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Ephesians 1:18 I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in his holy people,

Ephesians 3:18 may have power, together with all the Lord’s holy people, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ,

...and many more.


I cannot find scripture where Paul calls us the sinners in Christ. You need to get saved by repenting of your sins and calling on Jesus to help you.

Wake up. You are in a religious trance.

"This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation, that Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners; OF WHOM I AM CHIEF" 1 Timothy 1:15.

 

[God's Truth]

Wake up. You are in a religious trance.

"This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation, that Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners; OF WHOM I AM CHIEF" 1 Timothy 1:15.

You need to deal with what Paul said many times.
If you are not holy, then you are not saved.

 

[Robert Pate]

You need to deal with what Paul said many times.
If you are not holy, then you are not saved.

No, if you don't see yourself as an unworthy sinner you are not saved.

Your righteousness is filthy rags, Isaiah 64:6.

 

[God's Truth]

No, if you don't see yourself as an unworthy sinner you are not saved.

You are saying 'no' to Paul.

Paul never ever calls us sinners in Christ.

Your righteousness is filthy rags, Isaiah 64:6.

Obeying Jesus is never ever filthy.

 

[TulipBee]

“The doctrine of justification itself, as preached by an Arminian, is nothing but the doctrine of salvation by works…” — C.H. Spurgeon

 

[freelight]

“The doctrine of justification itself, as preached by an Arminian, is nothing but the doctrine of salvation by works…” — C.H. Spurgeon

Faith without works is dead

 

[TulipBee]

Faith without works is dead

Right ! Faith first works second.

Works first and faith second is very very dead.

But you can keep trying by working. Maybe one day you'll see the Bible as God's word. Till then .... Continue with your fairy tales

 

[freelight]

All that is said while we're not abled convicts us of our sins. We should but none wanted to. All of mankind don't want to please God. Different story on that when Jesus saved. We provided many quotes that tells us were not able. When God said we should and we're not able then we should know our core is more rotten than we think. You make it that we were never born as a sinner and boast. You make sin so clean but we provided quotes that tells us the real conditions of our sin. It's far much worst than you know. You have no clue what hell is like cause you deny hell exists. You try to make us look stupid with your dark celestial languages but the Bible, which you deny, is all we got. We got convicted and made us aware the unrantia is false since it denied it was breathed by God according to your favorite unfamiliar celestials that are stupid. We know Melchizedek in the 66 book Bible. We don't need stories about Melchizedek from dark spirits. That's why we look stupid to you. Our truths are from God via the Bible, alone. Sin itself looks stupid to you. You told us why we're able when God tells us we're not abled. In other words , real Christians understand what total depravity means. You're blind to that. We are born sinners. You boast about your sinless flesh.

My former sharing of 'scripture' and the word of 'God' STANDS. If you believe the Bible, and the 'God' of the Bible, you cannot deny the He has given man 'free will', neither can you deny his very WORD, whereby he also called heaven and earth as witnesses. Thats pretty strong evidence that he has given man a choice between LIFE and DEATH and allows creation itself to be bear witness.

The 'doctrine' of 'original sin' is also problematic.

See: Are Men Born Sinners? The Myth of Original Sin, Written by Alfred T. Overstreet

 

[Crucible]

“The doctrine of justification itself, as preached by an Arminian, is nothing but the doctrine of salvation by works…” — C.H. Spurgeon

:BRAVO:

Spurgeon is a living well of the most badass Christian quotes

Absolutely brilliant

 

[Crucible]

I mean, what you got to say about that :chuckle:

 

[daqq]

I mean, what you got to say about that :chuckle:

Well, I suppose one could turn the tables on you and do the same thing a couple of your cohorts like to do. It would probably go something like this:

Quote the verse that says, "Calvinism is the Gospel, and nothing else" ! (Brother187 !). :chuckle:

 

[Crucible]

Well, I suppose one could turn the tables on you and do the same thing a couple of your cohorts like to do. It would probably go something like this:

Quote the verse that says, "Calvinism is the Gospel, and nothing else" ! (Brother187 !). :chuckle:

Quote the verse that says it isn't :idunno:

You can find Calvinism from Genesis to Revelation- it is a complete exegesis of the Bible.

 

[daqq]

Quote the verse that says it isn't :idunno:

You can find Calvinism from Genesis to Revelation- it is a complete exegesis of the Bible.

And round and round it goes . . .

 

[Crucible]

And round and round it goes . . .

I read a good deal on Origen, speaking of which.

Brilliant man.
Not by any means infallible though

I may have told you that already
I've been all over the place lately :think:

 

[TulipBee]

My former sharing of 'scripture' and the word of 'God' STANDS. If you believe the Bible, and the 'God' of the Bible, you cannot deny the He has given man 'free will', neither can you deny his very WORD, whereby he also called heaven and earth as witnesses. Thats pretty strong evidence that he has given man a choice between LIFE and DEATH and allows creation itself to be bear witness.

The 'doctrine' of 'original sin' is also problematic.

See: Are Men Born Sinners? The Myth of Original Sin, Written by Alfred T. Overstreet

Strong is a weak word for truth. Truth smashes it. You deny the Bible and have a strong case that it has errors. If you believe the Bible then you wouldn't say it has errors. Not only you're strong about it, you're also wrong about it.