John 20:28 and the Trinity

[Apple7]

The point is that now everyone reading this forum can see that you must needs embarrass yourself more and more, as you've thus far done, in trying to defend your asinine and false claim that Paul was referring to Jesus, rather than to Satan, as "the god of this world". All my questions are still there, that I asked you, and all your stonewalling against them is still there, too. So, yeah. But, go ahead, keep on meaninglessly chanting the word "context" whenever you can't rationally respond to rational, Scriptural objections to your claim--I'll bet everybody else is just plain too simple and stupid to see through that ploy, right? After all, you're that one guy who's eminently capable of, for no reason, pasting huge blocks of Greek text into forum posts, with a self-satisfied grin, saying, "So there!"

Speak to the Greek.

 

[Apple7]

Please tell us the post number where you apparently showed scripture saying that ONLY God can bind Satan.

Rev 20.

 

[Apple7]

So you're saying the ones spoken of in false apostles in 2 cor 11 are are men under demon possession or demons come in human flesh the same way Jesus became flesh, which one do you believe if any?

Demons occupy flesh, this is fact according to scripture.

Jesus already confirmed in scripture that NO demon or Satan can occupy His flesh.

Study up, chap...

 

[Apple7]

Then why haven't you brought out a single one of these scriptures that apparently "pronounce" Satan was bound at the cross? Let me guess, you'll claim you have because you've shown me verse where you've read your own thoughts into the scripture, but in reality it says nothing of the sought.

Still waiting for an 'informed' response from you, other than constant denial without exegesis.

'Witnesses' always proclaim that they actually study scripture.

Seems to be the running joke, yes?

He gave his body and his blood so that mankind could be saved, simple.

'Saved' from whom?

To whom did Jesus pay His blood ransom?

 

[Apple7]

Where is this teaching found biblically that Jesus had to be the divine being for death to be meaningful? Again, this is another human created teaching that is not found in the bible.

Here...

προσδεχομενοι την μακαριαν ελπιδα και επιφανειαν της δοξης του μεγαλου θεου και σωτηρος ημων χριστου ιησου


And here...

σιμων πετρος δουλος και αποστολος ιησου χριστου τοις ισοτιμον ημιν λαχουσιν πιστιν εν δικαιοσυνη του θεου ημων και σωτηρος ιησου χριστου

 

[Apple7]

I do worship Christ, since by worshiping Christ its him who passes all worship and glory to the Father. (Phil 2:9-11, John 4:23,24)

Jesus changed the location of worship to Himself and The Holy Spirit, in John 4.

• John 4.21; Worship to The Father is no longer to take place in the Mountain, or in Jerusalem.
• John 4.23 – 24; Jesus declares that the NEW place to worship The Father is in Spirit and Truth, which is to worship in the Person of Jesus Christ, who is the temple, holding the Second and Third Persons’ of the Trinity.
• John 10.36 - 38; The Father is in the Son; The Son is in The Father.
• John 14.6; No one comes to The Father except through Jesus.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Apple7,

If Hebrews chapter 2 is correct in your eyes, then chapter 1 must likewise be absolutely correct, as well...
Heb 1.6 And again, when He brought the First-born into the world, He said, "And let all the angels of God worship Him."

Again, a slight diversion from fully answering Hebrews 2:5-10 in comparison to your faulty exposition of Psalm 8:5. But in answer to your statement, yes, Hebrews 1:6 is absolutely correct as well. The angels worshipped Jesus as did the wise men from the east Matthew 2:1, 11. Jesus is the Son of God and was born the Son of God Matthew 1:20-21, Luke 1:35, John 1:14, Romans 1:1-4, and was thus of higher status even at birth than the angels and the wise men.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Apple7]

Also, to be a Christian means to be a follower of Christ, this is the very definition of the word. Christian does not imply you need to worship him.

Incorrect, witness.

The term 'Christian', as used in scripture, lexically reads as....'The name was first given to the worshippers of Jesus by the Gentiles'.

This was later perverted and used by anyone claiming to 'follow' Jesus Christ....like JW cult followers, etc...

 

[7djengo7]

Speak to the Greek.

Like YOU, yourself, actually understand any of the Greek text which you copy/paste into your vacuous, juvenile posts! Now, really, who is going to believe that you do, you computer keyboard champion? Your performance with English has been pathetic; why, then, do you imagine that anybody takes you seriously when you pretend to know what you're talking about when you copy/paste blocks of Greek text into your posts?

Again, all the questions I've asked you, all of which you haven't answered, and can't answer, are still here, in this forum.

Has Satan ever blinded people's minds? Whose? When?
Did Satan, at some point, stop blinding people's minds? When? Why?
Does Satan, presently blind people's minds? Whose?
You say--nay, you seem to rejoice in saying--that Jesus blinds people's minds. Whose minds would you say Jesus blinds? And, with a Jesus Who blinds people's minds, who needs Satan, anyway?

Again, since obviously just about everybody (w/ the exception of your own superior-to-everybody-else self) rejects, and does not receive, your asinine claim that Paul's phrase, "the god of this world", is a reference not to Satan, but rather, to Jesus, then, if your claim were true, then you're the only one who sees it, whereas all the rest of us have obviously been blinded against seeing that your claim is true. So, again, WHO is blinding us to your "truth"? Jesus? Satan? Both? I already asked you this in a previous post, and so far, nothing but absolute silence to it from you. Why is that?

 

[Apple7]

Greetings again Apple7, Again, a slight diversion from fully answering Hebrews 2:5-10 in comparison to your faulty exposition of Psalm 8:5. But in answer to your statement, yes, Hebrews 1:6 is absolutely correct as well. The angels worshipped Jesus as did the wise men from the east Matthew 2:1, 11. Jesus is the Son of God and was born the Son of God Matthew 1:20-21, Luke 1:35, John 1:14, Romans 1:1-4, and was thus of higher status even at birth than the angels and the wise men.

Kind regards
Trevor

The angels of God worship God.

 

[Apple7]

Like YOU, yourself, actually understand any of the Greek text which you copy/paste into your vacuous, juvenile posts! Now, really, who is going to believe that you do, you computer keyboard champion? Your performance with English has been pathetic; why, then, do you imagine that anybody takes you seriously when you pretend to know what you're talking about when you copy/paste blocks of Greek text into your posts?

Again, all the questions I've asked you, all of which you haven't answered, and can't answer, are still here, in this forum.

Has Satan ever blinded people's minds? Whose? When?
Did Satan, at some point, stop blinding people's minds? When? Why?
Does Satan, presently blind people's minds? Whose?
You say--nay, you seem to rejoice in saying--that Jesus blinds people's minds. Whose minds would you say Jesus blinds? And, with a Jesus Who blinds people's minds, who needs Satan, anyway?

Again, since obviously just about everybody (w/ the exception of your own superior-to-everybody-else self) rejects, and does not receive, your asinine claim that Paul's phrase, "the god of this world", is a reference not to Satan, but rather, to Jesus, then, if your claim were true, then you're the only one who sees it, whereas all the rest of us have obviously been blinded against seeing that your claim is true. So, again, WHO is blinding us to your "truth"? Jesus? Satan? Both? I already asked you this in a previous post, and so far, nothing but absolute silence to it from you. Why is that?

Advice to you...

Please put your energies and rage into speaking DIRECTLY to scripture...perhaps someone may actually read it then...

 

[Apple7]

Matthew 27:60 states that Joseph, after preparing body of Jesus after his death, rolled a stone over the entrance to Jesus tomb and "went away" (apēlthen). What is meant by the usage of apēlthen here? Was Joseph bound like Satan was or did he simply leave the area/location where he had left Jesus body?

The term means to depart in an absolute manner...and that's exactly what Joseph did.

Joseph is NEVER mentioned again in Mat after he departs.

Thanks for PROVING my point, chap!

 

[Apple7]

No, scripture does NOT utilizes numerous epithets for the binding of Satan, you simply cherry pick verses and assume phrases relate to the binding of Satan, much like our discssion above of "Satan went away from spreading weeds among the wheat" somehow meaning "Satan was bound", cherry picked and assumed.

Jesus stripped The Devil of authority ‘apekdysamenos’ (completed action) and separated him from his demons, at The Cross. Col 2.15

What can you do now, chap?

 

[Apple7]

Do you understand the entire verse of Hebrews 2:14 to be past tense?



The phrases is synonymous with the phrase you've been using as lexicons show.

As I've said many times no you assume the meaning in Hebrews 2:14 to relate to the binding of Satan in Rev 20, translators do not agree with.

Translations of the text render the verse in part:

Hebrews 2:14
so that through death he could destroy
that through death he might bring to nothing
that through death He might render powerless him
that through death he might bring to nought
that through death he might bring to nothing
that through death he might annul
that through death He might render powerless

The verse can be very easily understood that Christ death enabled Jesus to stop the sin and death mankind to inherited because of Satan. You've assumed Satan being brought to nothing is the same thing as Satan being bound despite scripture clearly showing Satan as active and having influence post Jesus death. You've yet to show a convincing argument.

You might want to actually try using a lexicon to define your 'off-the-cuff' witness-cult wannabe definition, first...


Heb 2.14

επει ουν τα παιδια κεκοινωνηκεν αιματος και σαρκος και αυτος παραπλησιως μετεσχεν των αυτων ινα δια του θανατου καταργηση τον το κρατος εχοντα του θανατου τουτ εστιν τον διαβολον

epei oun ta paidia kekoinōnēken haimatos kai sarkos kai autos paraplēsiōs meteschen tōn autōn hina dia tou thanatou katargēsē ton to kratos echonta tou thanatou tout' estin ton diabolon

Since, then, the children have partaken of flesh and blood, in like manner He Himself also shared the same things, that through death He might render entirely idle the one having the power of death, that is, the devil;



καταργηση = ‘katargēsē’

‘katargēsē’ definition:

Strong’s #G2673. Aorist tense verb, 3rd person singular. The Devil is to be reduced to inactivity through the death of Christ (Heb 2.14). The Epistle to the Hebrews fills out this declaration by stating that through the death of Christ even the one who has power over death, the devil, is condemned to inactivity or ineffectiveness in relation to the Christian (Heb 2.14). To cause something to come to an end or no longer in existence, abolish, wipe out, set aside. To render idle, unemployed, inactivate, inoperative. To cause a person or thing to have no further efficiency. To deprive of force, influence, power. To cause to cease, put an end to, do away with, annul, abolish. To cease, to pass away, be done away. To be severed from, separated from, discharged from, loosed from any one. To terminate all intercourse with one. to be (render) entirely idle (useless) , literally or figuratively: - abolish, cease, cumber, deliver, destroy, do away, become (make) of no (none, without) effect, fail, loose, bring (come) to nought, put away (down), vanish away, make void. To cause something to be unproductive, use up, exhaust, waste. To cause something to lose its power or effectiveness, invalidate, make powerless. From #G2596 & #G691.

Strong’s #G2596. Down from.

Strong’s #G691. To be idle.


References:
Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (TDNT), Gerhard Kittel, Gerhard Friedrich, & Geoffrey W. Bromiley, volume one, pp. 452 - 454
A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian Literature, 3rd edition (BDAG), Frederick William Danker, pp. 525 - 526
Thayer’s Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, Joseph H. Thayer, p. 336
The Complete Wordstudy Dictionary of the New Testament, Warren Baker, Warren Baker, based on the lexicons of Edward Robinson & John Parkhurst, pp. 841 - 842
The New Strong’s expanded exhaustive concordance of the Bible (red-letter edition), James Strong, LL.D., S.T.D., p. 133

 

[Apple7]

Jesus death is a ransom, paid to God, for the price of Adams failings. Yes it was paid.

A ransom is paid to someone holding prisoners.

God was holding us prisoner?


ROTFLOL!!!!!

 

[Apple7]

witness...

You have a lot at stake wanting to believe that 2 Cor 4.4 refers to Satan, as this then makes your 'argument' for Jesus being referred to as God...and you can then dismiss Jesus' deity without any guilt...

 

[7djengo7]

Advice to you...

Please put your energies and rage into speaking DIRECTLY to scripture...perhaps someone may actually read it then...

No rage, here. On the contrary, I'm delighted, actually, since the truth I've been championing stands tall against your falsehood. You didn't even read my post, because, as you and I both know, your attempts at Scripture-twisting have been shredded by truth, despite your futile attempts at damage control. We've sounded out your claim, asked you several very pertinent questions about it (against all of which you have consistently, and noisily, stonewalled), and your inability to rationally defend your claim has, as a matter of course, come to amplify itself as loud as can be. You should probably just put me on "ignore".

Advice to you...

Please stop applying your obvious deficiency of intellectual integrity toward trying to defame Trinitarianism while pretending to be a friend to Trinitarianism. And, if you want to stop being so disingenuous, why not come clean and say,

"I, Apple7, was simply wrong in claiming that Paul was referring to Jesus, rather than to Satan, as "the god of this world", and I realize that I find nothing in Scripture that could even come close to supporting my claim, and I realize I have not rationally responded to any of 7djengo7's questions and objections to my false claim."​

 

[Apple7]

No rage, here. On the contrary, I'm delighted, actually, since the truth I've been championing stands tall against your falsehood. You didn't even read my post, because, as you and I both know, your attempts at Scripture-twisting have been shredded by truth, despite your futile attempts at damage control. We've sounded out your claim, asked you several very pertinent questions about it (against all of which you have consistently, and noisily, stonewalled), and your inability to rationally defend your claim has, as a matter of course, come to amplify itself as loud as can be. You should probably just put me on "ignore".

Advice to you...

Please stop applying your obvious deficiency of intellectual integrity toward trying to defame Trinitarianism while pretending to be a friend to Trinitarianism. And, if you want to stop being so disingenuous, why not come clean and say,

"I, Apple7, was simply wrong in claiming that Paul was referring to Jesus, rather than to Satan, as "the god of this world", and I realize that I find nothing in Scripture that could even come close to supporting my claim, and I realize I have not rationally responded to any of 7djengo7's questions and objections to my false claim."​

Please show us where you rebutted with exegesis.

Good luck...

 

[way 2 go]

Context spanks you, yet again...


Adding context…

For, brothers, you became imitators of the assemblies of God being in Judea in Christ Jesus, because you also suffered these things by your own fellow countrymen, as they did also by the Jews, who both killed the Lord Jesus and their own prophets, also having driven us out, and not pleasing God, and being contrary to all men, hindering us from speaking to the nations in order that they be saved, to the filling up of their sins always. But the wrath to the end is come on them. But, brothers, we being taken away from you for an hour's time, in presence, not in heart, we were much more eager with much desire to see your face. Because of this, we desired to come to you, truly I, Paul, both once and twice; but Satan hindered us. (1 Thes 2.14 – 18)


As we can see by adding context, this ‘hindering’ is applied to what the Jews (plural) did in obstructing Paul.

thank you for high lighting your error

1Th 2:18 says Paul was hindered from returning by satan
& still all you have is conjecture

and you admit " informs the reader that Satan hindered Paul"

1Th 2:18 Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Apple7,

The angels of God worship God.

All in heaven and earth have been called upon by God the Father to do obeisance to His Son, the Son of God, our Lord Jesus Christ, whom God has exalted to sit at his right hand. In thus doing obeisance to Jesus, it redounds to the glory of the One God, God the Father.
Philippians 2:8–11 (KJV): 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Kind regards
Trevor