Can you name one other?
John 10:30 – Jesus is The Son of God
- Thread starter TrevorL
- Start date
Can you name one other?
Didn't think so.
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Splitting hairs...............
Splitting hairs...............
My statement concerning them 'sharing' the same mind, will and spirit holds, and anyone having intellectual consistency of understanding and spiritual discernment ascertains what I mean.
I'm well aware of Jesus surrending his will to the Father, showing that as a MAN he had what appeared to be a separate autonomous will. Never-the-less his will was wholly joined to and loyal to the Father's original pre-eminent will, and when two wills are joined, especially if you assume some kind of 'hypostatic union' between Jesus human and divine natures, they can certainly be identified as 'one will' (I mean whose counting? God is One). Here again we are 'splitting' hairs over 'difference' while at the same time touting 'oneness in essence'. My original statements and commentary must be taken in their intellectual and spiritual comprehension, the two coordinating in 'synergy'. It remains that while two 'persons' are joined or married together as 'one', they are still two separate distinct persons, - I think goes without saying. To think this is being 'pointed out' by someone who professes that "Jesus is YHWH" is somewhat peculiar, since YHWH in the OT was always considered to be the Eternal Father, NOT his Son, so there are problems on that point, among other 'con-fusions' that come with an orthodox formulation of the Trinity. In one sense it pounds its fist on the table to maintain eternal oneness, yet on the other it tries so hard NOT to confuse the persons so it puts itself into its own conundrum.
View attachment 25114
This passage mind you, is Peters own inspired profession that Jesus is the 'Christ' the SON of the living God'. Pay special attention to the word 'SON'.
I've already shared my view clearly in my previous commentary on the Alpha & Omega. In the first announcement of God's title(s), it is God the Father preeminently speaking, declaring himself to be the A and the Z, the Lord GOD Almighty. - Remember, the majority texts have the word 'GOD' here in Rev. 1:8 which some translations omit. The title 'Beginning and End' is also omitted in the majority texts. See the NASB as shared here previously. This is important to show emphasis that the Father is speaking initially here as being the A and the Z (being the Originator/Progenitor of all that can be known or defined), since He alone is the ALL-Mighty GOD. The title 'Lord God Almighty' always belongs exclusively or preeminently to God the Father Alone, the Most High Elohim (YHWH). - the Word-Son-Messiah naturally and administratively bears the NAME of his Father also, because He is the Father's Representive and Ambassador. The Word-Son-Messiah receives (is given) all power and authority from His Father. To see the Son, is to see the Father. To behold the 'Word' of 'God' is to see the 'revelation' of 'God'. Like Father, Like Son. (note know,...the Lord Jesus in these respects and contexts can be seen in a Unitarian, Arian, Modalist or Trinitarian format depending on one's own philosophical or theological disposition or preference.) Jesus the Christ, the image/revelation of 'God' is still the Word-Son-Messiah of 'God'. (debates are being hashed over fine point differentials. I guess its true that in some respects, the 'devil is in the details').
In the last announcement (Rev.22:12-13), its still 'God' speaking with One Voice, as he always does. God is One and can only have 'One Voice' no matter how many personalities are 'voicing' for the Father
The Son by unity of mind, will and spirit, is 'God' because he is the Son, Messenger, Word, Prophet, Lamb, Agent of 'God' in form. Remember, God and his Logos are ONE. - if one does not "get" this both intellectually and spiritually (in how such is appropriated within any given context)....I cannot help that, except continue to share more to enable comprehension. In the verse above by virtue of the titles given, it is 'God' who is, was and is ever coming to be (the Word of God goes forth in every dispensation of time, in any given 'appearing'. How does God manifest Himself, His will, His personality, His glory, but thru His Son, His Christ, His Messenger, His Prophet? - Therefore, 'God' is the One who IS and is ever 'appearing', in every dispensation, at every point of time, in all space! He fills all space and time, but manifests by his 'word' at any given point in space or time. The Omnipresence of 'God' prevails, yet his 'appearings' happen according to certain intervals of potential within divine providence. We could go on here,....but the point should be preeminently CLEAR.....'God' and his 'Logos' are one. The 'Voice' of God speaks thru the Son,- the Father makes his appearing thru the Son. God futher extends himself thru His Son, into the body of His Son, within every individual soul in the Temple of His Messiah.
Of course. God and His Word are one. Jesus said that to see him is to see God the Father. Jesus RE-PRESENTS 'God'.
Splitting hairs...............
My statement concerning them 'sharing' the same mind, will and spirit holds, and anyone having intellectual consistency of understanding and spiritual discernment ascertains what I mean.
I'm well aware of Jesus surrending his will to the Father, showing that as a MAN he had what appeared to be a separate autonomous will. Never-the-less his will was wholly joined to and loyal to the Father's original pre-eminent will, and when two wills are joined, especially if you assume some kind of 'hypostatic union' between Jesus human and divine natures, they can certainly be identified as 'one will' (I mean whose counting? God is One). Here again we are 'splitting' hairs over 'difference' while at the same time touting 'oneness in essence'. My original statements and commentary must be taken in their intellectual and spiritual comprehension, the two coordinating in 'synergy'. It remains that while two 'persons' are joined or married together as 'one', they are still two separate distinct persons, - I think goes without saying. To think this is being 'pointed out' by someone who professes that "Jesus is YHWH" is somewhat peculiar, since YHWH in the OT was always considered to be the Eternal Father, NOT his Son, so there are problems on that point, among other 'con-fusions' that come with an orthodox formulation of the Trinity. In one sense it pounds its fist on the table to maintain eternal oneness, yet on the other it tries so hard NOT to confuse the persons so it puts itself into its own conundrum.
View attachment 25114
This passage mind you, is Peters own inspired profession that Jesus is the 'Christ' the SON of the living God'. Pay special attention to the word 'SON'.
I've already shared my view clearly in my previous commentary on the Alpha & Omega. In the first announcement of God's title(s), it is God the Father preeminently speaking, declaring himself to be the A and the Z, the Lord GOD Almighty. - Remember, the majority texts have the word 'GOD' here in Rev. 1:8 which some translations omit. The title 'Beginning and End' is also omitted in the majority texts. See the NASB as shared here previously. This is important to show emphasis that the Father is speaking initially here as being the A and the Z (being the Originator/Progenitor of all that can be known or defined), since He alone is the ALL-Mighty GOD. The title 'Lord God Almighty' always belongs exclusively or preeminently to God the Father Alone, the Most High Elohim (YHWH). - the Word-Son-Messiah naturally and administratively bears the NAME of his Father also, because He is the Father's Representive and Ambassador. The Word-Son-Messiah receives (is given) all power and authority from His Father. To see the Son, is to see the Father. To behold the 'Word' of 'God' is to see the 'revelation' of 'God'. Like Father, Like Son. (note know,...the Lord Jesus in these respects and contexts can be seen in a Unitarian, Arian, Modalist or Trinitarian format depending on one's own philosophical or theological disposition or preference.) Jesus the Christ, the image/revelation of 'God' is still the Word-Son-Messiah of 'God'. (debates are being hashed over fine point differentials. I guess its true that in some respects, the 'devil is in the details').
In the last announcement (Rev.22:12-13), its still 'God' speaking with One Voice, as he always does. God is One and can only have 'One Voice' no matter how many personalities are 'voicing' for the Father
The Son by unity of mind, will and spirit, is 'God' because he is the Son, Messenger, Word, Prophet, Lamb, Agent of 'God' in form. Remember, God and his Logos are ONE. - if one does not "get" this both intellectually and spiritually (in how such is appropriated within any given context)....I cannot help that, except continue to share more to enable comprehension. In the verse above by virtue of the titles given, it is 'God' who is, was and is ever coming to be (the Word of God goes forth in every dispensation of time, in any given 'appearing'. How does God manifest Himself, His will, His personality, His glory, but thru His Son, His Christ, His Messenger, His Prophet? - Therefore, 'God' is the One who IS and is ever 'appearing', in every dispensation, at every point of time, in all space! He fills all space and time, but manifests by his 'word' at any given point in space or time. The Omnipresence of 'God' prevails, yet his 'appearings' happen according to certain intervals of potential within divine providence. We could go on here,....but the point should be preeminently CLEAR.....'God' and his 'Logos' are one. The 'Voice' of God speaks thru the Son,- the Father makes his appearing thru the Son. God futher extends himself thru His Son, into the body of His Son, within every individual soul in the Temple of His Messiah. Of course. God and His Word are one. Jesus said that to see him is to see God the Father. Jesus RE-PRESENTS 'God'.
"My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
I and my Father are one."
This is quoted from the King James Version. But I emphasized the wordage my, since it is not even implied in the ancient Greek.
Here is the ancient Greek of the last of the two verses,
This verse is easily better rendered as "I and a father of the one [thing], [we] are." It summarizes the statements of the previous 2 verses. Using and translating this verse as proof of a trinity or mode of the diety is an obvious deceit.
I and my Father are one."
This is quoted from the King James Version. But I emphasized the wordage my, since it is not even implied in the ancient Greek.
Here is the ancient Greek of the last of the two verses,
Egw is translated I ; and kai is translated and, and o pater should be translated "a father". Pater being the ancient Latin transliteration of the pre-Anglo-Saxon Greek loan word pathr. The tau is pronounced like an English thorn, and theta was pronounced like the English t or d. The Greek een is the accusative form eeis. Eeis always signifies an object doing in an action. [And because eimi is always a passive verb, een is the active word in the sentence.]
This verse is easily better rendered as "I and a father of the one [thing], [we] are." It summarizes the statements of the previous 2 verses. Using and translating this verse as proof of a trinity or mode of the diety is an obvious deceit.
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Remember what you just said to me on the other thread (but I forgive you)
but the answer to this question concerning the two wills of Jesus is found in--
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Jesus had the same flesh as all men, but was obedient to the end not like all other men.
Here is Jesus after the flesh attack had been dealt with--
Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Heb 12:3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
Heb 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
Often it is that seemingly contradictions are fully explainable.
LA
God's Truth
New member
That is not my job.
KingdomRose
New member
Exactly right, Trevor. Jesus refuted the Jews' accusation that he claimed to be God or equal to God. Most folks don't take the time to read all of the surrounding verses after reading John 10:30-33. The following verses where Jesus refutes them are basically ignored. Thanks for bringing them out, and also explaining what John 10:30 actually means.
KingdomRose
New member
That's THREE GODS. Count them. You worship three Gods. What's that called? Polytheistic? Jesus said plainly, in prayer to his Father: "YOU are the only true God." (John 17:3) ONE God. The Father. Jehovah.
KingdomRose
New member
No it's not blasphemy. Who said we have to honor the Son? THE FATHER, GOD. Jehovah says to honor Jesus, so we do. Jehovah is God. Jesus is not.
It is so simple, isn't it?
God's Truth
New member
Jesus did what? Prove it with scripture.
God's Truth
New member
The three are the same.
God's Truth
New member
How many Spirits are there who live in the saved?
God's Truth
New member
You can prove your point to the trinitarians, but you cannot go against the truth.
Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one and the same Spirit, the Spirit of God the Father.
What separates the "true" God from any other God. Is it authority?
But only one of the three is referred to as spirit, the other two are not.
I'm curious as to why the Father and the Son are not acknowledged as being spirit. Paul explained there are only two types of bodies, there are natural bodies (flesh and blood) and there are spiritual bodies (not flesh and blood).
It's impossible that the Father and the Son are not spirit.
There are a huge number of spirits who are holy and a few who are not.
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The Son is not Spirit but is flesh and blood.
Right Divider
Body part
He is both.
Luke 24:39 New International Version (NIV)
39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”
Why do you believe Jesus wasn't resurrected?