Well, the problem is, like with Squeaky, I'm kind of BORED with trying to communicate with you. It appears as if you have a 'profound learning disability.'
Jews And Gentiles Same Goal
- Thread starter Squeaky
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Well, the problem is, like with Squeaky, I'm kind of BORED with trying to communicate with you. It appears as if you have a 'profound learning disability.'
The irony isn't wasted, huh?
Right Divider
Body part
Jesus said that the kingdom was AT HAND.... that means COMING SOON.
The gospel of the kingdom was simply that GOOD NEWS.
There are MANY gospels (good news) in the Bible.
Right Divider
Body part
His command of the English language is a lot like his "understanding" of the Bible.
:chuckle:
Squeaky is now accusing 'Old GM' of being, of all things, demon-possessed. What's next? What else will he accuse me of? I'll update everyone as the accusations come forth.
I desire to be forthright. In case there's any confusion regarding where I stand. I'm a Dispensationalist who clings to the 'Gospel of the grace of God' (As it's called by the Apostle Paul.) I believe that the 'Epistles of Paul' contain God's ONLY 'Plan of Salvation' in this 'Dispensation of Grace.'
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I'll not be 'communicating' any further with 'Squeaky or Rosenritter. It's a waste of my efforts and time to do so.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
So they were preaching the same gospel that declares that Christ died for our sins but they left out that part!
That is ridiculous!
Rosenritter
New member
Why do you keep prefacing your posts with "I said?" Sorry to have to ask, but it is distracting.
Rosenritter
New member
You seem to have an explanation-phobia.
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Rosenritter
New member
It's hardly left out. If they were keeping the law, Those same houses brought the lamb into their home every year at the same time, kept it with them in their houses like a dear pet, then slaughtered it for the Passover, recalling how its blood was spread in the horizontal and vertical so that Death would pass over their homes. The ascension of Christ was timed to coincide with the wave sheaf offering that was to ascend to the most high. The Pentecost was always observed with leavened offerings symbolizing the acceptance of that which had prior taint with sin. The gospel is embedded in the law, the realization of what happened would hit after the fulfillment. This was by design.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Since they didn't even know that the Lord Jesus was going to die it is certain that the facts concerning His death were left out!
Those closest to the Lord lived under the law and they knew about all of the blood sacrifices under the law but they did not know that those sacrifices pre-figured the Cross or else they would know that He was going to die.
Rosenritter
New member
The gospel is not a precise combination of known facts in a fixed ratio. It is the overreaching Gottspiel (God's Word) of salvation for mankind. You yourself may think that you understand the gospel, but may be certain facts that you are still learning and discovering as you pray and study. This doesn't mean that each new aspect you understand becomes a new gospel.
John 1:28-30 KJV
(28) These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing.
(29) The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
(30) This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.
John 1:36-37 KJV
(36) And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
(37) And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.
I think someone before had said that the Jews were never preached that Jesus would take away their sins. I say that it was already preached, and it would seem strange if those that Jesus sent out to preach did so without inclusion of what John the Baptist had laid in preparation.
Could we merge this thread into the one where I was asking you to properly explain both "two gospels" as you understood them?
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Sir Robert Anderson says the following about that translation:
"This is not translation merely, it savours of exegesis. 'Who beareth the sin of the world' is what the Baptist said. His words were not a prophecy of what Christ would accomplish by His death, but a statement of what He was in His life. Mark the present tense, 'Who is bearing.' And while the word used in 1 Peter 1:2-24, and in kindred passages, is a sacrificial term, we have here an ordinary word for lifting and carrying burdens. When the Lord sighed in healing the deaf mute by the Sea of Galilee, and when He groaned and wept at the grave of Lazarus, He took upon Himself, as it were, the infirmities and sorrows which He relieved, and made them His own. And in this pregnant sense it was that He bore the world's sin. In this sense of the word He was manifested to bear sins, and in no other sense was He a sin-bearer during His earthly life." (Types in Hebrews, 52).
The "present" tense proves that the Baptist's words were not about what happened at the Cross.
Here is the verse from the OT which John the Baptist was referring to at John 1:29:
"He bears our sins, and is pained for us: yet we accounted him to be in trouble, and in suffering, and in affliction" (Isa.43:4; LXX).
Rosenritter
New member
So now you are arguing against the translation?
John 1:29 Tyndale
(29) The nexte daye Iohn sawe Iesus commyge vnto him and sayde: beholde the lambe of God which taketh awaye the synne of the worlde.
John 1:29 DRB
(29) The next day, John saw Jesus coming to him; and he saith: Behold the Lamb of God. Behold him who taketh away the sin of the world.
John 1:29 RV
(29) On the morrow he seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold, the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world!
John 1:29 ESV
(29) The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
John 1:29 NIV
(29) The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
John 1:29 NASB
(29) The next day he *saw Jesus coming to him and *said, "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!
John 1:29-30 MSG
(29) The very next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and yelled out,
(30) "Here he is, God's Passover Lamb! He forgives the sins of the world! This is the man I've been talking about, 'the One who comes after me but is really ahead of me.'
I've just given a wide variety of seven translations (and even one sloppy paraphrase) that are all in agreement as to the actual message being expressed here, "who taketh away the sin of the world."
John 1:29 GNT-TR
(29) τη επαυριον βλεπει ο ιωαννης τον ιησουν ερχομενον προς αυτον και λεγει ιδε ο αμνος του θεου ο αιρων την αμαρτιαν του κοσμου
| G142αἴρω airō ah'ee-ro A primary verb; to lift; by implication to take up or away; figuratively to raise (the voice), keep in suspense (the mind); specifically to sail away (that is, weigh anchor); by Hebraism (compare [H5375]) to expiate sin: - away with, bear (up), carry, lift up, loose, make to doubt, put away, remove, take (away, up). |
The Greek says to take away. John wasn't written in Hebrew. John the Baptist was a prophet and spoke for God, it's possible he elaborated and expanded on the Hebrew much like Paul does in his epistles. There's every indication that the translation is just and proper.
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I said
when I got on the net in 1995 they didnt separate my reply to the other persons very well. And if they posted verses and I answered with verses they would blend in together. And I was always have to go back and explain.
I dont that for so long it just turned into a habbit. Then a trade mark.
He has been asked that many times 8n the past and the answer he used to give...the actual reason he does it and has been doing it...and the following is Squeaky's own explanation of why he does it and not an objectionable truth ...but in more or less words it is because he "wants to differentiate between his own thoughts and the words of Jesus Christ Himself." So when squeaky says "I said" then those "are the words of Jesus Christ" or the Holy Spirit or who ever squeaky says is "talking through him" or something to that effect. Basically any time he says "I said" those are not squeaky's words/thoughts they are the words and thoughts of Jesus or the Holy Spirit or who ever he claims is speaking through him and not his own.
If you look into his posts from a while ago and then for years before that he has explained it as that many times. I can't point to where specifically because I haven't been on here for a while and I can't keep track of things like this but that is squeaky's original explanation of why he does that...... .
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Even if the translation is correct the verb translated "taketh away" is in the present tense so the Baptist's words were not speaking about what happened at the Cross because when he said those words the Cross remained in the future.
Now let us look at the verse which John was making reference:
"He bears our sins, and is pained for us: yet we accounted him to be in trouble, and in suffering, and in affliction" (Isa.43:4; LXX).
In regard to this verse Alfred Edersheim writes that "it is in reference to this passage that the Messiah bears in the Talmud the designation, 'the Leprous One,'and 'the Sick One' (Sanh. 98 b). (Alfred Edersheim, The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah, Volume I, 488).
That corresponds to what Sir Robert Anderson wrote:
"When the Lord sighed in healing the deaf mute by the Sea of Galilee, and when He groaned and wept at the grave of Lazarus, He took upon Himself, as it were, the infirmities and sorrows which He relieved, and made them His own. And in this pregnant sense it was that He bore the world's sin. In this sense of the word He was manifested to bear sins, and in no other sense was He a sin-bearer during His earthly life" (Types in Hebrews, 52).
According to your ideas the Twelve were preaching the same gospel at Luke 9:6 which Paul preached to the Gentiles, a gospel that is centered on the death of the Lord Jesus, despite the fact that at that time they didn't even know He was going to die (Lk.18:33-34)!
Rosenritter
New member
Present tense also can designate that a thing is both sure and certain and even that is has been in motion from the foundation of the world.
John 6:53-54 KJV
(53) Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
(54) Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Sounds like his death and resurrection is preached right there. It is the same gospel, with the same means and the same end. The presentation may differ according to time, circumstance, and audience.