We've covered Is. 9:6 elsewhere, perhaps a blog portal is needed to cover all the 'trinitarian proof texts', an archive page to access for easy reference
We would also note that Is 9:6 is quite different in the Septuagint. Below is the NETS translation -
The online Jewish Bible with commentary by Rashi below:
Its traditionally assumed by quite a few Jewish commentators that this verse is referring to King Hezekiah, as logically assumed in context of the passage. That it refers also to some future messianic figure is speculative if this is a 'double prophecy' or not. Important to note as well the immeidate text speaks of this son already having been born (hence the reference to Hezekiah assumed), not a birth that will take place in some future time.
Then wait you will, you'll have to search a little longer,...maybe its just YOU are looking for something that just conforms to your own belief-system and 'Christology', could that be it?
Titles Alpha & Omega, Beginning and End, First and Last apply more prominently 'God the Father' Himself, but also His Son the Christ, since it is thru the Agency of the Son, that he brings forth creation and redemption (in periodic dispensational cycles). I've been very CLEAR on this, and not dancing on the subject, but am free to elaborate the different nuances of the relationship and other details therein. You on the other hand are just trying to 'peg' Jesus into your own Christological mold and formula, when my sharing of a more Unitarian View is just as if not more consistent, since I hold the earliest apostles of Jesus were more or less Unitarian. (later Christologial development were 'conceptualized' later by church councils and church-state politics). Jesus himself was Unitarian and his own words PROVE IT....fundmentally so. Now you can presume, superimpose a trinitarian over-face into the equation, as so many creeds have attempted, and thats fine as a conceptual overlay. The distinct relationship of the Father and Son, even the Spirit inter-acting holds, and these are even professed by trinitarians, but they claim their belief is superior or more correct ('orthodox' as they say) than a more purely Unitarian view. Apples or oranges? take your pick.
Oh btw,...I can entertain an even higher more cosmic view of a Paradise Trinity, but this more expanded revelation is contained in the Urantia Book
Yep, and the Brenton English translation of the Septuagint has also been quoted and explained, (and I think that was posted to Jerry also but do not remember for sure off hand). Nothing else counts but what Jerry Shugart says counts.
Or is the 'hold' too tight?
Thanks for your honesty.
Seems to be a common theme among "MADists"???
Me too, and when they themselves are "anti-trinitarians", yet calling others who disagree with them, "anti-trinitarians", I enjoy making note of that hypocrisy. All you need to do is look at the Trinitarian war-shield, (Scutum Fidei), to see that Jerry is not a traditional Trinitarian.
Yes, doctrinal 'grid-lock'. With a little more 'oil' I think some 'loosening' will occur
A common belief among some. Even mormons would agree with you, although their 'divine hierarchy' has its own peculiar arrangements
I have seen athiests argue with respect for some religious idea.Me too, and when they themselves are "anti-trinitarians", yet calling others who disagree with them, "anti-trinitarians", I enjoy making note of that hypocrisy. All you need to do is look at the Trinitarian war-shield, (Scutum Fidei), to see that Jerry is not a traditional Trinitarian.
