KingdomRose
New member
No, I just explained that. Why keep asking questions when they have already been answered, if you just would read the explanations?
Jesus SEPARATE from Jehovah; calls Jehovah "my God."
- Thread starter KingdomRose
- Start date
- Status
No, I just explained that. Why keep asking questions when they have already been answered, if you just would read the explanations?
"Does the Bible describe Jesus being worshiped?"
Worship means “reverence paid to a divine being.” If Jesus was offered and accepted worship, then by doing so He was confirming His divinity. This is important because there are those who deny the deity of Christ, relegating Him instead to a lesser position than God. Yes, Jesus accepted worship. As the second Person of the Trinity, He was and still is worshiped.
From the beginning of Jesus’ life, we see examples of Him being worshiped. As soon as the Magi laid eyes on the infant Christ, “they bowed down and worshiped Him” (Matthew 2:11). The Bible records the initial response Jesus received when He made His triumphal entry into Jerusalem: “So they took branches of palm trees and went out to meet him, crying out, ‘Hosanna! Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord, even the King of Israel!’” (Matthew 21:9; John 12:13) The word hosanna is a plea for salvation and an expression of adoration. This word used by the crowd is definitely a form of worship.
Just after Jesus amazed the disciples by walking on water, “those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, ‘Truly you are the Son of God’” (Matthew 14:33). Two more memorable examples of Jesus accepting worship occurred just after His resurrection. Some of the women (Matthew 21:1; Mark 16:1; Luke 24:10) were on their way to tell the disciples of the resurrection when Jesus met them on their way. When they realized it was He, they “came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him” (Matthew 28:9).
Then there is the case of Thomas, who didn't believe Jesus had risen from the dead despite the other disciples’ testifying to that fact. It had been about a week since the resurrection, and Thomas still doubted it. Jesus, knowing Thomas doubted, appeared to him and showed him the nail marks in His hands and feet and the wound in His side. How did Thomas respond? “Thomas said to him, ‘My Lord and my God!’” (John 20:28). In none of these instances do we see Jesus telling those worshiping Him to stop, as did mere men and even angels who were being worshiped wrongly by others (Acts 10:25–26; Revelation 19:9–10).
We continue to offer worship to Jesus today by offering ourselves to Him as a living sacrifice—offering ourselves to God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to do with as He sees fit (Romans 12:1–2). Jesus said, “God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth” (John 4:24). We worship God in spirit and truth by obedience to His commands. Worship is not solely about bowing to Jesus, throwing palm branches at His feet, or singing and shouting about our love for Him. Worship is about knowing Him, communing with Him, serving Him, and trusting in Him. (from gotquestions.org)
KingdomRose
New member
To Bright Raven: Re-read my posts if you would be so kind. You keep going over the same thing, even after I have explained the difference between "worshipping" Jehovah and Jesus.
BTW, Jesus himself said that it is ONLY JEHOVAH that we must worship [as God Almighty] and the only One that we should serve.
He quoted Deuteronomy 6:13 at Luke 4:8:
"You shall fear only the LORD [YHWH] your God; and you shall worship Him and swear by His name." (NASB)
BTW, Jesus himself said that it is ONLY JEHOVAH that we must worship [as God Almighty] and the only One that we should serve.
He quoted Deuteronomy 6:13 at Luke 4:8:
"You shall fear only the LORD [YHWH] your God; and you shall worship Him and swear by His name." (NASB)
In light of John 5:39, John 10:30 and Deuteronomy 6:4...
I'm shocked you believe that bunk...
# It hurts when people are this decieved
KingdomRose
New member
I'm shocked that you believe that John 5:39 would contradict what I believe, and that John 10:30 means that Jesus and his Father are literally one Person!!! LOL!!! I'm so shocked! You have totally disregarded JOHN 17:20-23 that clearly shows what being "one" really means!
To the Father Jesus prayed: "I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word; in order that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they may be in union with us, in order that the world may believe that you sent me forth. Also, I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one."
How much clearer does it have to be (that "one" must mean unified)? It can't be that "one" means they are the same person. Otherwise, the disciples are also God!
Any reasonable, clear-minded thought on that?
exactly.
Or perhaps ONE does not refer to the same meaning or context in every found verse and use.....
Meaning is with origional language which can be found in the message taught by Church fathers. Who supported trinity.
Similar to Paul and Peter and other disciples.
Sent from my LG-K330 using Tapatalk
WHOSE church fathers would that be? Mine are Abraham, Issac and Jacob, the same fathers Paul and the rest of the disciples had. Peace
well depends on language like anything else. Historically Jacob Isaac and Abraham brought synagogues. But if we consider church to mean a body of people, then we could still adress stages within a single church through history or seperate groups of people to better identify liked theology or demographics.
Rightly so, history of a group may reflect how to use a paticular term along with initial message an author desired to present to an audience.
Your question presents excellent example as to when an author presents information ment to mean one thing but an audence member reads it as another thing or is not connected to the message.
in this case I would refer to history of the one church (body) that is more commonly identified as being founded by Jesus - during Jesus's time on earth - and followed in suit by St. Peter.
Clear, I should have named the church I was refering to but Im sure arguements may arise with that as well.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Let us look at the following passage which is in regard to God:
"And the One seated on the throne said: “Look! I am making all things new.” Also he says: “Write, for these words are faithful and true.” And he said to me: “They have come to pass! I am the Alʹpha and the O·meʹga, the beginning and the end. To anyone thirsting I will give from the spring of the water of life free. Anyone conquering will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be my son" (Rev.21:5-7; NWT).
Since there can only be One who is said to be the "Alʹpha and the O·meʹga, the beginning and the end" we can know that Jesus Christ is God because He says this:
"‘The one who bears witness of these things says, ‘Yes, I am coming quickly.’”+ “Amen! Come, Lord Jesus.”Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to repay each one according to his work. I am the Alʹpha and the O·meʹga, the first and the last, the beginning and the end" (Rev.22:12-13; NWT).
John certainly understood that it was the Lord Jesus speaking there, as witnessed by his response here:
“The one who bears witness of these things says, ‘Yes, I am coming quickly.’” “Amen! Come, Lord Jesus” (Rev.22:20; NWT).
From this we can know that the Lord Jesus is God--"the Alʹpha and the O·meʹga, the beginning and the end."
KingdomRose
New member
Not one of the ORIGINAL church "fathers" (i.e., the 12 Apostles) supported the spurious Trinity.
As IF they would, right? They were all Jews and in Acts, Paul, near the end of his life, makes it expressly clear that he was STILL a Jew and worshipped according to the way his fathers worshipped. Peace
KingdomRose
New member
Oh stop, sir. You and I went round and round with this a few weeks ago. I have posted an avalanche of evidence from the Scriptures that Jesus and Jehovah are two different individuals, and yet you continue to deny that. You are stuck in an unfortunate mind-set. The Alpha and Omega = Jehovah, and not Jesus, what you pathetically argue notwithstanding.
If anyone is interested in the truth, please give consideration to my arguments.
KingdomRose
New member
If the Trinity was true, it would have been taught even to the ancient fathers, from the beginning. Such an important doctrine, if true, would not have been hidden for thousands of years only to emerge over 100 years after Christ was on the earth. It was dreamed up by apostate church leaders after the first century and solidified 400 years after Christ's presence on earth. Anyone can see the sinister nature of this teaching and its questionable inclusion into church doctrine.
Well, one would think, but an error nearly 2000 years in the making, has some mighty deep roots to be dug up before one can progress, and the exclusion of the Torah and the Tabernacle for instruction made quick work of establishing error in place of truth. Peace
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Trinity, take it or leave it..............
Trinity, take it or leave it..............
It is but one of the many among concepts of a 'Godhead' within theology, but no matter how you slice, dice, or even personify Deity (decorate IT with names, forms, personalities, gender, etc.),....'God' (who is infinite Spirit, incorporeal, eternal, infinite, absolute reality) is ever indivisibly One. - this 'God' begets sons, has offspring, being the FATHER of all things and beings. All derives from the Father-Source.
A Unitarian view is wholly sensible, logical and rational....relationally speaking, even if we grant Jesus some kind of divinity by his relationship with Father-God, or some special divinity assumed. The Son ever remains subordinate to the Father, as his Agent, Messenger, Anointed. There is no need to deify the Man Jesus, beyond what is appropriate or properly assumed, he being God's representative. Even then, Jesus is a prototype of our own humanity merging with God to become one with him,....there being mortal and immortal aspects to man's nature and destiny, - however man assumes a sharing in the divine nature, and ascends in glory in Christ, the indwelling Christ in him, being the hope of glory!
Living the religion of Jesus, which is love, is more important than one's Christology, although a properly rational Christology will certainly not hinder one's religious life. So, its a matter of having a Christology that is also morally and philosophically sound, integrous and Spirit-inspired. - the Spirit itself is life. - all else are but details, descriptions and differing points of view. What is most important is to live in(from) the Spirit. - this is what is essential, if you would have life and peace.
Trinity, take it or leave it..............
It is but one of the many among concepts of a 'Godhead' within theology, but no matter how you slice, dice, or even personify Deity (decorate IT with names, forms, personalities, gender, etc.),....'God' (who is infinite Spirit, incorporeal, eternal, infinite, absolute reality) is ever indivisibly One. - this 'God' begets sons, has offspring, being the FATHER of all things and beings. All derives from the Father-Source.
A Unitarian view is wholly sensible, logical and rational....relationally speaking, even if we grant Jesus some kind of divinity by his relationship with Father-God, or some special divinity assumed. The Son ever remains subordinate to the Father, as his Agent, Messenger, Anointed. There is no need to deify the Man Jesus, beyond what is appropriate or properly assumed, he being God's representative. Even then, Jesus is a prototype of our own humanity merging with God to become one with him,....there being mortal and immortal aspects to man's nature and destiny, - however man assumes a sharing in the divine nature, and ascends in glory in Christ, the indwelling Christ in him, being the hope of glory!
Living the religion of Jesus, which is love, is more important than one's Christology, although a properly rational Christology will certainly not hinder one's religious life. So, its a matter of having a Christology that is also morally and philosophically sound, integrous and Spirit-inspired. - the Spirit itself is life. - all else are but details, descriptions and differing points of view. What is most important is to live in(from) the Spirit. - this is what is essential, if you would have life and peace.
Last edited:
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
You had no argument about the verses which I quoted. You just IGNORED them and assert that you have proof that what is said in those verses is not true.
Why don't you step up to the plate and actually address these specific passages which I quoted?
If your ideas are right then you should have no problem dealing with these actual passages and proving that what is said in them supports you position.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
I can emphathize with you - My disseratation on 'Alpha & Omega' shared with JS is here. We wrested on this theme too
You didn't even address Revelation 21:6-7. Why don't you do it now and then compare it with what the Lord Jesus said at Revelation 22:12-13.
I will be waiting for your response as it should only take you a short time to defend your position.
Thanks!
freelight
Eclectic Theosophist
Truth's testimony........
Truth's testimony........
Already addressed in my last post link, my primary one, and from this very thread 'John 10:30 - Jesus is the Son of God' thread here (multiple posts from pages 20 thru 25) ...following my original dissertation-response - I've written vastly on this and we've been thru this MANY TIMES. - my commentary has been quite charitable. What is shared is enough to explain my views concerning this subject, the essentials and many other fine points related. My commentary speaks for itself, I need not be an apologist for it. Until I see things differently, or favor another point of view or interpretation, I'll articulate such changes,....until then,...the oracles stand.
I summarize my view in response to your basically same question in your own thread here and elsewhere (while I'm usually in the practice of linking previous posts, sometimes the posts are so extensive, its hard to retrack them, so can be time consuming, unless I catalog these in a blog-post or one of my threads).
Meta-tation:
There is only One Lord GOD Almighty, the Father of all. One Lord Jesus the Christ, the Son. One Infinite Spirit. You can divide, differentiate or modalize the One 'God' anyway you like,...but 'God' is still One', and He has many sons....because all those begotten or generated from Him, are his offspring. As I've shared before,....you may prefer a Unitarian, Trinitarian, Modalist or any other Christology,...this may not matter or diminish any one's relationship of FAITH in the One 'God', but represents a different conceptual view or contextual-frame, and this does not have to affect or distort one's love for God, or spiritual communion with Deity, as long as the heart and soul are one with God in SPIRIT. My Christology, and universal spirituality in this context or the context of any religious tradition or school that I happen to be inter-facing, holds the same essentials thru-out. My studies in other religious traditions or schools will use their terms, nomenclature, symbols and concepts,...the universal meanings and values of Spirit are the same! 'God' is One. His Will is One. His 'Name' is One. ('name' here denotes divine Identity, as the Infinite, but different religious traditions call 'God' by different 'words'). - remember, I said elsewhere 'God' has One Voice....although it may be expressed in different dialects, symbol-tones.
The Truth holds out,....the Father Alone is 'God' Almighty(there is ever only One Almighty...all other 'elohim' are only 'mighty ones', NOT the Almighty)....all sons of 'God' may be called 'elohim' as they abide in communion with Spirit or represent 'God' in some way, by relationship and derivitation. 'God' alone is source, all substance and form is of Him, the One, the Only. 'God' is just a 'word'...but the reality that 'God' points to, is spirit. 'This' is 'God', here, now and forever. 'This' is absolute reality. - all else modified or conditioned by space and time is but 'relative'.
Truth's testimony........
Already addressed in my last post link, my primary one, and from this very thread 'John 10:30 - Jesus is the Son of God' thread here (multiple posts from pages 20 thru 25) ...following my original dissertation-response
- I've written vastly on this and we've been thru this MANY TIMES. - my commentary has been quite charitable. What is shared is enough to explain my views concerning this subject, the essentials and many other fine points related. My commentary speaks for itself, I need not be an apologist for it. Until I see things differently, or favor another point of view or interpretation, I'll articulate such changes,....until then,...the oracles stand.I summarize my view in response to your basically same question in your own thread here and elsewhere (while I'm usually in the practice of linking previous posts, sometimes the posts are so extensive, its hard to retrack them, so can be time consuming, unless I catalog these in a blog-post or one of my threads).
Meta-tation:
There is only One Lord GOD Almighty, the Father of all. One Lord Jesus the Christ, the Son. One Infinite Spirit. You can divide, differentiate or modalize the One 'God' anyway you like,...but 'God' is still One', and He has many sons....because all those begotten or generated from Him, are his offspring. As I've shared before,....you may prefer a Unitarian, Trinitarian, Modalist or any other Christology,...this may not matter or diminish any one's relationship of FAITH in the One 'God', but represents a different conceptual view or contextual-frame, and this does not have to affect or distort one's love for God, or spiritual communion with Deity, as long as the heart and soul are one with God in SPIRIT. My Christology, and universal spirituality in this context or the context of any religious tradition or school that I happen to be inter-facing, holds the same essentials thru-out. My studies in other religious traditions or schools will use their terms, nomenclature, symbols and concepts,...the universal meanings and values of Spirit are the same! 'God' is One. His Will is One. His 'Name' is One. ('name' here denotes divine Identity, as the Infinite, but different religious traditions call 'God' by different 'words'). - remember, I said elsewhere 'God' has One Voice....although it may be expressed in different dialects, symbol-tones.
The Truth holds out,....the Father Alone is 'God' Almighty(there is ever only One Almighty...all other 'elohim' are only 'mighty ones', NOT the Almighty)....all sons of 'God' may be called 'elohim' as they abide in communion with Spirit or represent 'God' in some way, by relationship and derivitation. 'God' alone is source, all substance and form is of Him, the One, the Only. 'God' is just a 'word'...but the reality that 'God' points to, is spirit. 'This' is 'God', here, now and forever. 'This' is absolute reality. - all else modified or conditioned by space and time is but 'relative'.
- Status