Jesus SEPARATE from Jehovah; calls Jehovah "my God."

[daqq]

Oh yeah, it's dispensational alright, even a hundred years ago it did not mean what it means today despite what the modern Trins claim about a tradition that goes back seventeen hundred years. That is just how it is when definitions are allowed to fluctuate and slip away. Today's MADists are slowly becoming the new version of Trinitarianism and most people are not even capable of seeing it because study is just too "boring" and complex things take too much time to comprehend. Before too long no doubt, if not already, a pastor will be able to stand before a congregation and proclaim with a straight face the ancient traditions of the Mid Acts theology of most of the premier church fathers; and who is going to be capable of refuting him, even if they wanted to? They will be happy just knowing they are the true saints believing the most ancient traditions of men, (and of course "traditions of men" will not be a bad thing to them either). :baby:

Happy, happy, joy, joy.

@freelight - Here is a perfect example of what I mean: @Nihilo

So then, Nihilo, do you also say, "Jesus is YHWH", like Musterion says?

So then, Nihilo, do you also say, "Jesus is YHWH", like Musterion says?

I believe in the Trinity, if that's what you mean. He is YHWH made flesh, as John 1:14 (KJV) indicates. He is YHWH with us, as Matthew 1:23 (KJV) says. Also He is the Son in Matthew 28:19 (KJV).

I believe in the Trinity, if that's what you mean. He is YHWH made flesh, as John 1:14 (KJV) indicates. He is YHWH with us, as Matthew 1:23 (KJV) says. Also He is the Son in Matthew 28:19 (KJV).

That is not John 1:14 says, neither is that what Matthew 1:23 says, nor is it what the Hebrew passage says which Matthew 1:23 is quoting from. The Name of the Father is nowhere mentioned in the sense that you mean it in either of those two passages you have quoted to make your point. Saying that "Jesus is YHWH" is a twisting of the scripture because the Father is YHWH throughout the Old Testament. Neither is it true Trinitarianism which you are describing. The Father is not His own Son. The Father did not beget Himself.

That is not John 1:14 says, neither is that what Matthew 1:23 says, nor is it what the Hebrew passage says which Matthew 1:23 is quoting from. The Name of the Father is nowhere mentioned in the sense that you mean it in either of those two passages you have quoted to make your point. Saying that "Jesus is YHWH" is a twisting of the scripture because the Father is YHWH throughout the Old Testament.

The Trinity is YHWH and YHWH is the Trinity. Numbers 6:24-26 (KJV)

Neither is it true Trinitarianism which you are describing. The Father is not His own Son. The Father did not beget Himself.

Nor does the Church's teaching on the Trinity suggest or claim or indicate such, so straw man on your part there.

See what I mean? This poster decides what the Trinity is and how it was and is to be taught. Neither the scripture, nor the study of the scripture, nor the traditions of the early Trinitarian fathers and teachers, means anything to this poster. Nope, absolutely nothing, because "Jesus is YHWH", and, "He is YHWH made flesh, as John 1:14 (KJV) indicates", and apparently now "Immanu·El" translates into, "YHWH with us, as Matthew 1:23 (KJV) says", and nothing and no one can tell the poster any different; not even the fact that according to mainstream Trinitarianism the Father YHWH is non-corporeal Spirit, and not even the fact that none of the scripture passages quoted say anything close to what the poster claims they do. All you need to do is take the Tetragrammaton Name of the Father YHWH away from Him and give that Name to His Son, and cha-cha-cha-ching!!! pay dirt!! all of your theology problems are solved: you now have an updated new age grace God who abolished the "Old" with His "antiquated" commandments and Law. And anyone who tries to reason with facts is just trying to make a phony straw-man argument: end of story, don't rain on my parade!

Happy, happy, joy, joy . . . :cloud9: :baby:

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You tell 'em, Jerry!
Good post.

Thanks, Tambora!

With all these experts on board I wonder why no one has yet to answer my invitation:

Perhaps someone on this thread can explain why He said those things?​

All I hear are the crickets!

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Let us look at this passage:

"But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God" (Jn.5:17-18).​

The Jews who heard Him obviously thought that when He referred to His Father that way that He was claiming to be God.

For Jesus being Gods Son to be equal with God, shows that He is not God but equal to God, but He did not say that.

What the Jews thought amounts to nothing because of their twisted minds, but you would use their thoughts as some sort of truth.

If this was just a misunderstanding then the Lord Jesus would have cleared this up, saying, "No, I am not claiming to be God."

Since when had Jesus to clear up their understanding.

However, what He told the Jews only made it even more plain that He was claiming to be God. First, He told them that He had the same power to raise up the dead as does the Father (v.21). He then said that all judgment has been committed to Him by the Father (v.22). Then He told them this:

"That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him" (Jn.5:23).​

Never mind that His power and authority was given to Him from God His Father, and that due to His denial of Himself to live and do as any man has the right, but He surrendered His life to His Father.

There can be absolutely no doubt that by those words the Lord Jesus was confirming the Jews' idea that He was making Himself equal to God. And there is no reason at all why He would say those things unless He is God.

You are thinking as did the Pharisees, who were mixed up.

LA

 

[freelight]

Thanks, Tambora!

With all these experts on board I wonder why no one has yet to answer my invitation:

Perhaps someone on this thread can explain why He said those things?​

All I hear are the crickets!

We've answered several times over and over. The best you can claim is 'circularity'

And even still, the Father ever remains distinct from the Son,...nothing new.

 

[daqq]

Thanks, Tambora!

With all these experts on board I wonder why no one has yet to answer my invitation:

Perhaps someone on this thread can explain why He said those things?​

All I hear are the crickets!

Whom you say is your God, I ate his flesh and drank his blood as he commanded me to do, and I continue to do so, and I am one with him just as he is one with the Father. Since therefore you say by your doctrine that I am your God, why do I need to answer you? And why do you not believe and do what I say? :chuckle:

 

[RBBI]

@freelight - Here is a perfect example of what I mean: @Nihilo









See what I mean? This poster decides what the Trinity is and how it was and is to be taught. Neither the scripture, nor the study of the scripture, nor the traditions of the early Trinitarian fathers and teachers, means anything to this poster. Nope, absolutely nothing, because "Jesus is YHWH", and, "He is YHWH made flesh, as John 1:14 (KJV) indicates", and apparently now "Immanu·El" translates into, "YHWH with us, as Matthew 1:23 (KJV) says", and nothing and no one can tell the poster any different; not even the fact that according to mainstream Trinitarianism the Father YHWH is non-corporeal Spirit, and not even the fact that none of the scripture passages quoted say anything close to what the poster claims they do. All you need to do is take the Tetragrammaton Name of the Father YHWH away from Him and give that Name to His Son, and cha-cha-cha-ching!!! pay dirt!! all of your theology problems are solved: you now have an updated new age grace God who abolished the "Old" with His "antiquated" commandments and Law. And anyone who tries to reason with facts is just trying to make a phony straw-man argument: end of story, don't rain on my parade!

Happy, happy, joy, joy . . . :cloud9: :baby:

I'd say that about covers it with 90% of Churchianity.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Never mind that His power and authority was given to Him from God His Father, and that due to His denial of Himself to live and do as any man has the right, but He surrendered His life to His Father.

Do you honor the Lord Jesus as you do the Father?:

"That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him" (Jn.5:23).​

I can guarantee you that that Thomas did, as witnessed by the following words which he spoke to the Lord Jesus:

"And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God" (Jn.20:38).​

If I were you I would get down on my knees and beg the Lord Jesus for forgiveness because of the way that you dishonor Him.

 

[RBBI]

Let us look at this passage:

"But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God" (Jn.5:17-18).​

The Jews who heard Him obviously thought that when He referred to His Father that way that He was claiming to be God.

If this was just a misunderstanding then the Lord Jesus would have cleared this up, saying, "No, I am not claiming to be God." However, what He told the Jews only made it even more plain that He was claiming to be God. First, He told them that He had the same power to raise up the dead as does the Father (v.21). He then said that all judgment has been committed to Him by the Father (v.22). Then He told them this:

"That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him" (Jn.5:23).​

There can be absolutely no doubt that by those words the Lord Jesus was confirming the Jews' idea that He was making Himself equal to God. And there is no reason at all why He would say those things unless He is God.

Perhaps someone on this thread can explain why He said those things?

Thanks!

Do you read what you write? You just quoted that He said that all judgment had been committed to Him by the Father. Did the Father have to commit all judgment to HIMSELF? Think, man!

 

[daqq]

Do you read what you write? You just quoted that He said that all judgment had been committed to Him by the Father. Did the Father have to commit all judgment to HIMSELF? Think, man!

He does not even realize that by his own doctrine he makes Yeshua to answer his own prayer to the Father YHWH, in John 17:1-26, and that his doctrine also makes you and me and all the faithful into his God. Perhaps he worships at the feet of the faithful as it is written in Rev 3:9? :idunno: :chuckle:

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Do you read what you write? You just quoted that He said that all judgment had been committed to Him by the Father. Did the Father have to commit all judgment to HIMSELF? Think, man!

Here we see a plurality in the Godhead:

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness... So God created man in his own image" (Gen1:26,27).​

Here God is spoken of as being a plurality. This is a case of a "compound unity," a concept which is spoken of here:

"For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery" (Eph.5:31-32).​

This concept is above the reasoning of our finite minds and that is why Paul calls it a "mystery." Nevertheless, the concept of "compound unity" is found in the Bible and that same concept applies to the Godhead.

The Bible reveals that there is One God in three Divine Persons. That is why we read of the "name" (singular) of God here:

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" (Mt.28:19).​

 

[randomvim]

Hi rand,
I'm usually at my desktop pc so I have full command of my forum participation here, I do NOT go online with my cellphone, its too small, and I havent upgraded to a smartphone YET. So, its all from my desktop, or sometimes one of my kindle fire tablets. I have the TOL mobile App on my kindles, but usually dont use it, instead just using the Silk browser for reg. internet access.

As far as the Trinitarian phrase/assumption of Jesus being 'begotten/not made', well,....so go the 'terms'. The phrase 'eternally begotten' is an even more ambitious effort to combat Arianism, so these 'creeds' and their 'terms/meanings' need to be taken in their historical context as well. I've said elsewhere I dont see any advantage in assuming a Trinitarian Christology over a Unitarian, or even an ARIAN one.....none! I've seen no reason beyond doctrinal preferencing or favor to hold one over the other, since there are devout lovers of the Lord Jesus that are of BOTH camps. - my 'christology' is very liberal, since I give the maximal human and divine potentials to the person of Jesus, while seeing that Man TOO, has some of these same quality-attributes and possibilities, since Jesus is the Firstborn of many brothers. One can take the prototype of Jesus as Man's own transformation into a Son of God, as Jesus is the HEAD of a new creation or order of MAN. - there are all kinds of ways you can interpret Jesus in a more metaphysical progressive Christainity. Why grid-lock yourself to an ancient creed made reactionally against what was presumed to be heresy centuries ago? Recognize any truths or mistakes back then, and keeping moving forward........truth is living, dynamic....its not stuck in letters. Letters/language is merely the vehicle for spirit.



Being a philosopher, I enjoy using the term 'more or less' for the readers benefit. It enables them to use their intellectual and rational faculties at full spectrum, to reason, deduce, consider a matter in its totality, in all its dimensions. Certainly, not all is black or white. In the universal Light,....there are perhaps hundreds of various hues, tones, vibrations, frequencies of the One Light,....every colour variation possible, as long as there is 'reflection' of any kind existing. In space and time, its all RELATIVE.



Yes,...we have at least a few threads on the Unitarian/Trinitarian issue, I've been ping-ponging between them, and do not wish to spread myself too thin. I may archive my own commentaries on particular passages in one of my blog pages (I sometimes do blog a post, just for safe-keeping), you can blog any post you make, it goes right into your TOL blog catalog. (see lower left in each post you make)

Hi. yes a regular run of the mill computer is nice. or really nice ones too.

1. I was asking how YOU were using the term begotten as you were using it to make a point - or so I had pressume.

context is important in different ways. What such a term was being used to translate helps at times as well. All to better understand the message.

2. No, I pressume one would not see a personal benefit to some things when all is relative.

I pressume maintaining tradition is not progressive. Interesting enough, creating new traditions helps push what you speak of, a continuous flow of information and changes. But truth does not change. only what we consider it to be. If we change our view wide enough we no longer have view of what the truth is. In this case, we loose site of God.

in reaction to misguidence, a group of people created a written example of what they believed in to ensure everyone knows, if you are us. this is us. Here is our authority.

Now I know some dont like how that goes but I do. Structure and formation helps maintain a group. maintains information as well. So we see an oral tradition change into a written tradition. why? because gates of hell may will not prevail but humans can still disapate their own knowledge.

2b. Apply "all is relative" to any sciences or mechanics or such, and there can be lots of damage as well.

3. thank you for sharing your information on all aspects. Agree to disagree is best march from this point on. cheers.






Sent from my LG-K330 using Tapatalk

 

[randomvim]

He does not even realize that by his own doctrine he makes Yeshua to answer his own prayer to the Father YHWH, in John 17:1-26, and that his doctrine also makes you and me and all the faithful into his God. Perhaps he worships at the feet of the faithful as it is written in Rev 3:9? :idunno: :chuckle:

1. what do you consider prayer to be?

2. May you elaborate the last portion?

Sent from my LG-K330 using Tapatalk

 

[randomvim]

Do you read what you write? You just quoted that He said that all judgment had been committed to Him by the Father. Did the Father have to commit all judgment to HIMSELF? Think, man!

Trinity identifies 3 distinct persons, of whom may act as one and interact with each other. If the Father is not the Son But both are God, then one would identify the other, no?

Sent from my LG-K330 using Tapatalk

 

[daqq]

Whom you say is your God, I ate his flesh and drank his blood as he commanded me to do, and I continue to do so, and I am one with him just as he is one with the Father. Since therefore you say by your doctrine that I am your God, why do I need to answer you? And why do you not believe and do what I say? :chuckle:

He does not even realize that by his own doctrine he makes Yeshua to answer his own prayer to the Father YHWH, in John 17:1-26, and that his doctrine also makes you and me and all the faithful into his God. Perhaps he worships at the feet of the faithful as it is written in Rev 3:9? :idunno: :chuckle:

1. what do you consider prayer to be?

2. May you elaborate the last portion?

Sent from my LG-K330 using Tapatalk

1. what do you consider prayer to be?

What I referenced which begins in the passage referenced:

John 17:1-5 KJV
1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

This entire chapter is clearly prayer to the Father as will be seen below.

2. May you elaborate the last portion?

It is a package deal, (meaning my previous post also, which I have reposted above).

John 6:53-58 KJV
53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

Thus I said to Jerry Shugart, "Whom you say is your God, I ate his flesh and drank his blood as he commanded me to do, and I continue to do so, and I am one with him just as he is one with the Father." One of the most often quoted passages which is used to claim that "Jesus is God Almighty" is the following which you will see in most every thread where this topic arises:

John 10:30 KJV
30 I and my Father are one.

John 10:30 ASV
30 I and the Father are one.

This is always the first if not one of the first passages quoted, so as to say, "See, see, Jesus is God Almighty!" And when you show the poster that Yeshua prays the same thing for his apostles, disciples, and those who would later come to believe through his apostles, they ignore it because what they are doing is using what is called a "special pleading" argument, (which means that certain words or phrases are taken to mean something super special when they are used concerning Yeshua but not when those same words or phrases are employed anywhere else). That really was much of the point in my previous several posts because of what the prayer of John 17 says concerning us being one with Messiah just as he is one with the Father. The same exact Greek word for "one" is used and employed in the same exact type of context. What this really means is that when Yeshua says he and the Father are one, in John 10:30, he means it the same way in which he means it in the passage which follows below. And that means that he is not claiming equality with the Father by saying they are one but rather claiming unity of mindset, of one mind, just as he prays for unity of mindset between us and him, and us with each other in him, and him in the Father, that we all may be one. Therefore when someone insists that Yeshua is God Almighty on the grounds of what is written in John 10:30 then by what is written in the following passage that same doctrine makes us all out to be God Almighty because Yeshua prays the same thing for us as it was with himself even before Golgotha. It is not hard to understand but maybe a little difficult to explain. Anyhow this entire chapter is clearly a prayer as will be seen throughout, (portions which I will highlight), and again at the close of the passage.

Yeshua Praying to the Father:

John 17:12-26 KJV
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

And now pay particular attention to this statement which I italicized in the above quote:
"that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me."

Revelation 3:9 KJV
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Paul tells you what it means to be a true Yhudi of the heart in Romans 2:28-29.
Jerry Shugart, as a MADist, really only believes the writings of Paul apply to himself.
But according to Paul anyone claiming to be "in Messiah" by default claims to be Yhudi.

I will let you decide what that implies for some who are posting here in this thread . . . :chuckle:

 

[Notaclue]

Thanks, Tambora!

With all these experts on board I wonder why no one has yet to answer my invitation:

Perhaps someone on this thread can explain why He said those things?​

All I hear are the crickets!

Ps.51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Rom.7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Heb.2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the author of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
11For both he that sanctifieth and they that are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
12saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, In the midst of the congregation will I sing thy praise.

Mk.10:17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

2Cor.5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
21. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Rom.8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Heb.9:27. And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28. So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

1Jn.1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:


Jerry, Let's take a closer look.

For he hath made him to be sin for us,

shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

For he hath made him to be sin for us,

shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Close enough?

 

[marhig]

Let us look at this passage:

"But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God" (Jn.5:17-18).​

The Jews who heard Him obviously thought that when He referred to His Father that way that He was claiming to be God.

If this was just a misunderstanding then the Lord Jesus would have cleared this up, saying, "No, I am not claiming to be God." However, what He told the Jews only made it even more plain that He was claiming to be God. First, He told them that He had the same power to raise up the dead as does the Father (v.21). He then said that all judgment has been committed to Him by the Father (v.22). Then He told them this:

"That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him" (Jn.5:23).​

There can be absolutely no doubt that by those words the Lord Jesus was confirming the Jews' idea that He was making Himself equal to God. And there is no reason at all why He would say those things unless He is God.

Perhaps someone on this thread can explain why He said those things?

Thanks!

The Jews twisted everything that Jesus said because they were trying to find an excuse to kill him. Just because they said that Jesus tried to make himself equal with God doesn't mean he did. God exalted Christ Jesus, he didn't exalt himself. And how by Jesus saying that God is his father does that make himself God?

Also there is this

John 10

Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.*Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?*The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.*Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?*If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;* Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God

Jesus clearly corrected the Jews here, when they said that he blasphemes because tried to make himself God , he said you say that I blaspheme because I say that I am the son of God?

Jesus never said he was God, but the son of God, and the Jews tried to twist his word to make it that he was making himself as God so that they put him to death for blasphemy.

 

[daqq]

The Jews twisted everything that Jesus said because they were trying to find an excuse to kill him. Just because they said that Jesus tried to make himself equal with God doesn't mean he did. God exalted Christ Jesus, he didn't exalt himself. And how by Jesus saying that God is his father does that make himself God?

Also there is this

John 10

Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.*Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?*The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.*Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?*If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;* Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God

Jesus clearly corrected the Jews here, when they said that he blasphemes because tried to make himself God , he said you say that I blaspheme because I say that I am the son of God?

Jesus never said he was God, but the son of God, and the Jews tried to twist his word to make it that he was making himself as God so that they put him to death for blasphemy.

Yep, and if he claims to be God Almighty he already said that his testimony is not true:

John 5:31 YLT
31 'If I testify concerning myself, my testimony is not true;

John 5:31 KJV
31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

This is a clear emphatic statement, period, no if's, and's, or but's, about it:
Plain and simple and irrefutable for anyone willing to believe the Testimony of Yeshua.
Those who say he claims to be God Almighty therefore prove that he is not! :rotfl:

 

[marhig]

Yep, and if he claims to be God Almighty he already said that his testimony is not true:

John 5:31 YLT
31 'If I testify concerning myself, my testimony is not true;

John 5:31 KJV
31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.

This is a clear emphatic statement, period, no if's, and's, or but's, about it:
Plain and simple and irrefutable for anyone willing to believe the Testimony of Yeshua.
Those who say he claims to be God Almighty therefore prove that he is not! :rotfl:

Good point!

 

[Tambora]

You also say "Jesus is YHWH" ???

Of course.

So then I guess it is a Mid-Acts belief then, huh?

Nah.

So far, except for John W, all the other MADists I have met have said the same.

Smart people.

 

[Tambora]

the Jews tried to twist his word to make it that he was making himself as God so that they put him to death for blasphemy.

And Jesus never corrected them.
Why do you?