JESUS IS NOT YHWH

[KingdomRose]

Tedious. If A = B does B = A?

The Son of God is not a different species of being than his Father.

Someone said, "For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him."

We are priests of both.

What a smoke-and-mirrors horror show! Your beliefs require so much mental gymnastics that it makes one's head swim to even try to think of things the way you do.

I don't know if you are male or female, but let's just say you are male. OK, now your father caused your birth, so we say Jamie is the son of your father. Jamie = the son

Does that mean that Jamie is also the father of Jamie? The son = the father? I can't see how you arrive at that. Sorry.

 

[daqq]

He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross,
so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness;
for by His wounds you were healed. - 1 Peter 2:24

So the amount of confusion you have caused already was not enough and now you want to add more confusion by pitting scripture against scripture? You really need to explain the glaring contradiction between what Psalm 40:12 says within its context, (which context was quoted in Hebrews), and your obviously erroneous atonement doctrine; it was you who quoted the passage to supposedly make your faulty point. What I posted to you is not a contradiction in my doctrine, (as shown by the link which was already provided). It is you that is confused and causing confusion with your carnal understandings of a spiritual and holy Word of Elohim Most High.

 

[KingdomRose]

Its interesting that you fight so adamantly against God. You literally believe you follow the organization of God and yet you are under the curse of Romans 2. You call Jesus a "creation", and yet... you understand that Jesus is worshiped. This means you have exchanged the Creator for the creation.

How is that working out?

No, no, no, you poor soul. Jesus is NOT worshipped as God. He himself said to only worship JEHOVAH. I guess you missed that. Only JEHOVAH is the "true God" (John 17:3) and it is only Jehovah that is worshipped as the one true God. We "worship" authority figures that require the honor and respect of their positions, but our signs of respect do not add up to giving them the worship that only God deserves. (See Romans 13:7.) We are to give to authorities the honor they ask for, and that is a form of worship. We stand up for a judge when he enters the courtroom. That is "obeisance," or, "worship." But we do not think of that judge as God. The same goes for Jesus. We give him respect and honor, but not as God.

 

[KingdomRose]

Are we ONE with them?

We can be. Just as Jesus prayed that his disciples would be (John 17:20-23).

 

[beameup]

You really need to explain the glaring contradiction between what Psalm 40:12 says within its context, (which context was quoted in Hebrews), and your obviously erroneous atonement doctrine

1 Peter 2:22 NASB "WHO COMMITTED NO SIN, NOR WAS ANY DECEIT FOUND IN HIS MOUTH"
Isaiah 53:9b [Brenton LXX] "for he practiced no iniquity, nor craft [deceit] with his mouth"

Yet it pleased the LORD [YHWH] to bruise him; he hath put him to grief:
when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin - Isaiah 53:10a

The atoning sacrifice must be an innocent victim,
"without spot or blemish"

 

[freelight]

Are we ONE with them?

Yes, if in the Spirit, sharing that same life-essence, vitality and consciousness. God is One. God is the One Universal LIFE, we being individual expressions of that One LIFE. Jesus prayed his high-priestly prayer with this unity-consciousness in mind.

God is One.

God is All.

 

[glorydaz]

No, no, no, you poor soul. Jesus is NOT worshipped as God. He himself said to only worship JEHOVAH. I guess you missed that. Only JEHOVAH is the "true God" (John 17:3) and it is only Jehovah that is worshipped as the one true God. We "worship" authority figures that require the honor and respect of their positions, but our signs of respect do not add up to giving them the worship that only God deserves. (See Romans 13:7.) We are to give to authorities the honor they ask for, and that is a form of worship. We stand up for a judge when he enters the courtroom. That is "obeisance," or, "worship." But we do not think of that judge as God. The same goes for Jesus. We give him respect and honor, but not as God.

Then you have no Saviour.

1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

2 Timothy 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

Isaiah 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the Lord? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.​

So, it looks to me like you're the "poor soul".

 

[glorydaz]

What a smoke-and-mirrors horror show! Your beliefs require so much mental gymnastics that it makes one's head swim to even try to think of things the way you do.

I don't know if you are male or female, but let's just say you are male. OK, now your father caused your birth, so we say Jamie is the son of your father. Jamie = the son

Does that mean that Jamie is also the father of Jamie? The son = the father? I can't see how you arrive at that. Sorry.

That's because you are trying to limit God to what is humanly possible. :mock: KingdomRose

 

[daqq]

1 Peter 2:22 NASB "WHO COMMITTED NO SIN, NOR WAS ANY DECEIT FOUND IN HIS MOUTH"
Isaiah 53:9b [Brenton LXX] "for he practiced no iniquity, nor craft [deceit] with his mouth"

Yet it pleased the LORD [YHWH] to bruise him; he hath put him to grief:
when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin - Isaiah 53:10a

The atoning sacrifice must be an innocent victim,
"without spot or blemish"

You still have not explained the contradiction you have with Psalm 40:12 in your doctrine. What it says is plain as day and clearly in the same context which you quoted to make your point. You quoted Hebrews 10:5-7 which in turn quotes from Psalm 40:6-8 and Psalm 40:12 is the same context without a break or change in subject. It is amazing that you cannot see the blatant contradiction in your own doctrine. The author of Hebrews very clearly is not thinking, writing, or speaking about what you have imagined in the machinations of your imagination.

 

[beameup]

You still have not explained the contradiction you have with Psalm 40:12 in your doctrine.

Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest enters into the Holy Place every year with blood of others; for then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of this age hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many - Hebrews 9:25-26,28a

All sin of mankind was transferred onto the sinless Christ
This principle is found throughout the Old Testament.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

So you therefore openly admit by your doctrine that your atonement theory is entirely bogus because the passage you quoted also quotes from a Psalm: and the critical context of that Psalm clearly shows that by your viewpoint your own spotless human-Man-Lamb is not spotless at all, but rather, as the Psalmist clearly says, his iniquities overtook him:

Psalm 40:6-13 KJV
6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,
8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.
9 I have preached righteousness in the great congregation: lo, I have not refrained my lips, O LORD, thou knowest.
10 I have not hid thy righteousness within my heart; I have declared thy faithfulness and thy salvation: I have not concealed thy lovingkindness and thy truth from the great congregation.
11 Withhold not thou thy tender mercies from me, O LORD: let thy lovingkindness and thy truth continually preserve me.
12 For innumerable evils have compassed me about: mine iniquities have taken hold upon me, so that I am not able to look up; they are more than the hairs of mine head: therefore my heart faileth me.
13 Be pleased, O LORD, to deliver me: O LORD, make haste to help me.

So much for your spotless sacrificial Man-Lamb: his iniquities took hold of him and overtook him according to the same context of the passage referenced and quoted in the Hebrews passage which you yourself quoted to supposedly defend your view. Your own carnal minded theology is nothing but a mass of confusion by which you are only dooming yourself.

You blaspheme.

Not only do you reject the necessity of the shed blood of Christ to atone for mens sins but now you claim Christ was not spotless.

These verses refer to David speaking--

12 For innumerable evils have compassed me about: mine iniquities have taken hold upon me, so that I am not able to look up; they are more than the hairs of mine head: therefore my heart faileth me.
13 Be pleased, O LORD, to deliver me: O LORD, make haste to help me.

LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Shalom.

When I read the Hebrew there is a Vav, but not a Waw. I do not even know what a Waw is.

Shalom.

Jacob

A Waw is TOL.

Shalom.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

As the fact is the Trinity and the belief that Jesus is God is thoroughly pagan.

Let us look at this verse which speaks of the appearing of the Lord Jesus, our great God and Savior:

"...while we wait for the blessed hope--the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ" (Titus 2:13).​

The following passage speaks of us looking for that appearance and the "glory" which we will see will be the Lord Jesus' "glorious body":

"But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body" (Phil.3:20-21).​

The following verse is also speaking of the same "appearance" and the same "glory":

"When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory" (Col.3:4).​

The following passage desribes this same appearance as a "hope":

"Beloved, now are we the children of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure
" (1 Jn.3:2).​

So the 'hope" and the "glory" in the following verse is referring to the glorious body in which we will see the Lord Jesus when He will appear:

"...while we wait for the blessed hope--the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ" (Titus 2:13).​

That is why Paul refers to that glory as belonging to the Lord Jesus, our great God and Savior.

 

[jamie]

I don't know if you are male or female, but let's just say you are male.

Same here, I don't know if you are male or female, but let's just say you are male.

Do you have a wife?

 

[jamie]

Does that mean that Jamie is also the father of Jamie? The son = the father?

The word god is a generic term like the plural elohim.

I didn't say the Son is a father, what I said is that Father and Son are the same species.

Like kinds.

 

[jamie]

God is One.

God is one family.

 

[beameup]

Father and Son are the same species
God is one family.

:doh:

 

[daqq]

You blaspheme.

Not only do you reject the necessity of the shed blood of Christ to atone for mens sins but now you claim Christ was not spotless.

These verses refer to David speaking--

12 For innumerable evils have compassed me about: mine iniquities have taken hold upon me, so that I am not able to look up; they are more than the hairs of mine head: therefore my heart faileth me.
13 Be pleased, O LORD, to deliver me: O LORD, make haste to help me.

LA

No, you lie and spread lies about other people just as you are doing now. I quoted the scripture. I also said that what I quoted is not a contradiction in my doctrine. It is however a contradiction in your fraudulent doctrine. That is not my problem and does not make me a blasphemer just because you want to curse the one who quoted the scripture which refutes your heresy.

 

[oatmeal]

I just learned something, a simple reply is almost useless.

 

[oatmeal]

I just learned something, a simple reply is almost useless.

A reply with quote is the useful way